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Thread: 2019 Cleveland Browns...We're back !!

  1. #46
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    Re: 2019 Cleveland Browns...We're back !!

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    And Kitchens does have one advantage over the others above .... he's been on the inside for the last year working under Dorsey. He knows, and has become comfortable within, that system, the players, etc. He's shown he can run this offense. And it's not a disadvantage that a head coach has a solid/close, even cozy, relationship with his QB either. ... Landry/Staubach, Shula/Marino, Noll/Bradshaw, Belichick/Brady, the list goes on. What other kind should you have (LOL)?
    LOL
    If I recall correctly Noll/Bradshaw was not a cozy relationship and I'm not sure I'd call Belecheck/Brady cozy either, but the reason all of those situations worked was because there was never a doubt about who was actually in charge, partly because the coaches were already established before the superstar quarterback came onto the scene. This case is different and certainly bears watching. The head coach has to sometimes play the role of the bad cop and put his foot down. Mayfield is a big personality and I could certainly see him undermining Kitchens if things don't go his way. I'm not doubting the hire, but I can see how things could go wrong.

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  3. #47
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    Re: 2019 Cleveland Browns...We're back !!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post

    The other team in Ohio is not known for its expertise in running a franchise. What's your point here? You have to strive to be the Steelers, not the Bengals.
    So we should expect to see the same types of negative posts from you on the Bengals thread - you know a team you actually care about?

    Besides the Steelers have done quite well with a coach I don't hold in very high esteem.
    Last edited by puca; 01-11-2019 at 10:25 AM.

  4. #48
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    Re: 2019 Cleveland Browns...We're back !!

    Quote Originally Posted by puca View Post
    So we should expect to see the same types of negative posts from you on the Bengals thread - you know a team you actually care about?
    I'll say similar things...that the Bengals are taking a big chance. But there are differences. Zac Taylor is not a hiring from within. He's also coordinated an offense before on something more than an interim basis. If you want real negative, read my posts after they hire Hue Jackson. There won't be any "he got a raw deal from the Browns...let's give the guy a chance."

    You are correct that I'm a Bengal fan and that makes the Browns my rival. I don't think I'm a Bengal homer though but if you think I'm looking at the Bengals thru rose colord glasses I encourage you to speak up.

    I'll speak up now and say that your comments sound like whining. I'm looking at the Browns from a non fan perspective...something this board badly needs

  5. #49
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    Re: 2019 Cleveland Browns...We're back !!

    Quote Originally Posted by puca View Post

    Besides the Steelers have done quite well with a coach I don't hold in very high esteem.
    I'm no fan of Tomlin either but Browns and Bengal fans have no room to complain about him. We all strive for the success enjoyed under Tomlin and he was a respected coordinator in the NFL before getting the Steelers' job, something that neither Kitchens nor Taylor have on their resume.

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    Re: 2019 Cleveland Browns...We're back !!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I'll say similar things...that the Bengals are taking a big chance. But there are differences. Zac Taylor is not a hiring from within. He's also coordinated an offense before on something more than an interim basis. If you want real negative, read my posts after they hire Hue Jackson. There won't be any "he got a raw deal from the Browns...let's give the guy a chance."

    You are correct that I'm a Bengal fan and that makes the Browns my rival. I don't think I'm a Bengal homer though but if you think I'm looking at the Bengals thru rose colord glasses I encourage you to speak up.

    I'll speak up now and say that your comments sound like whining. I'm looking at the Browns from a non fan perspective...something this board badly needs
    You may not be a Bengals homer, but your fandom certainly clouds your perspective of the Browns and any move they make. Kitchens is certainly a risky hire, but pretty much anyone would have been. I know that in his previous two stops Dorsey has been involved in creating powerhouse football teams, so I suspect he knows the parameters in play as well as anyone. If after vetting Kitchens (and he has had a lot of time to observe and get to know him), he believes he is the right man to lead this team, then who am I to argue. His track record speaks for itself.

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    Re: 2019 Cleveland Browns...We're back !!

    Bill Parcells was a hire from within on the Giants so while he doesn’t fit “the example given” he certainly qualifies as a success.

    Now - there aren’t many “from within” success stories cause teams rarely hire from within. Usually a coach is fired due to poor performance - teams don’t go rushing to promote someone from that fired regime. So there is a smaller pool of “from within” guys hired. The question would be how does the “from within” pool compare to the “from outside” pool.

    Heck I’d consider Mike Martz a success for the Rams despite him flaming out.

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  10. #52
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    Re: 2019 Cleveland Browns...We're back !!

    Quote Originally Posted by puca View Post
    You may not be a Bengals homer, but your fandom certainly clouds your perspective of the Browns and any move they make. Kitchens is certainly a risky hire, but pretty much anyone would have been. I know that in his previous two stops Dorsey has been involved in creating powerhouse football teams, so I suspect he knows the parameters in play as well as anyone. If after vetting Kitchens (and he has had a lot of time to observe and get to know him), he believes he is the right man to lead this team, then who am I to argue. His track record speaks for itself.
    I don't get why you're so defensive when you agree with me. Nothing you said above goes against anything I said. Nothing. So what did I say that clouds my perspective?

    As for Dorsey, he's never hired a head coach before. Kitchens is his first hire. He has no track record to speak for itself. If you want to have faith that's great. The motto here in Cincinnati when Marvin was hired was "trust in Marvin." I get it. That's what you should do and I have no problem with that. You're getting your panties in a wad for no reason. We don't disagree anywhere from what I can see.
    Last edited by Sea Ray; 01-11-2019 at 10:56 AM.

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    Re: 2019 Cleveland Browns...We're back !!

    Quote Originally Posted by puca View Post
    So we should expect to see the same types of negative posts from you on the Bengals thread - you know a team you actually care about?

    Besides the Steelers have done quite well with a coach I don't hold in very high esteem.
    Who are we kidding? The Steelers are just a well ran organization. In my lifetime, I am 51, they have had 3 coaches. All with long tenures. And all 3 with SB rings and appearances. The measuring stick for success in the division, and all of the NFL for that matter, is Pittsburgh.
    ...and this one belongs to the Reds.

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  13. #54
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    Re: 2019 Cleveland Browns...We're back !!

    Quote Originally Posted by Assembly Hall View Post
    Who are we kidding? The Steelers are just a well ran organization. In my lifetime, I am 51, they have had 3 coaches. All with long tenures. And all 3 with SB rings and appearances. The measuring stick for success in the division, and all of the NFL for that matter, is Pittsburgh.
    Exactly. The head coach is not the be-all end-all that defines success. He is another piece of the puzzle. The most important thing is that the piece actually fits.

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  15. #55
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    Re: 2019 Cleveland Browns...We're back !!

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    Bill Parcells was a hire from within on the Giants so while he doesn’t fit “the example given” he certainly qualifies as a success.

    Now - there aren’t many “from within” success stories cause teams rarely hire from within. Usually a coach is fired due to poor performance - teams don’t go rushing to promote someone from that fired regime. So there is a smaller pool of “from within” guys hired. The question would be how does the “from within” pool compare to the “from outside” pool.

    Heck I’d consider Mike Martz a success for the Rams despite him flaming out.
    Bill Parcells? You're going back 36 yrs to dig that one up? 18 of the past 20 hires from w/i have been a failure, including the last ten. Recent history is that hires from w/i do not work. And we know this in Cincinnati...Bill Johnson, Homer Rice, Bruce Coslet, Dick Lebeau, Steakhouse Dave

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    Quote Originally Posted by Assembly Hall View Post
    Who are we kidding? The Steelers are just a well ran organization. In my lifetime, I am 51, they have had 3 coaches. All with long tenures. And all 3 with SB rings and appearances. The measuring stick for success in the division, and all of the NFL for that matter, is Pittsburgh.
    No doubt. You're making my point. They are the standard to strive for

  16. #56
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    Re: 2019 Cleveland Browns...We're back !!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I don't get why you're so defensive when you agree with me. Nothing you said above goes against anything I said. Nothing. So what did I say that clouds my perspective?

    As for Dorsey, he's never hired a head coach before. Kitchens is his first hire. He has no track record to speak for itself. If you want to have faith that's great. The motto here in Cincinnati when Marvin was hired was "trust in Marvin." I get it. That's what you should do and I have no problem with that. You're getting your panties in a wad for no reason. We don't disagree anywhere from what I can see.
    It seems to me you're the one with the 'panties in a wad'. I simply asked whether we should expect you to spend as much energy on the Bengals thread questioning their head coaching hire as you do on a thread for a team you don't care about. That question seemed to send you off on personal attack mode.

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  18. #57
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    Re: 2019 Cleveland Browns...We're back !!

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    Bill Parcells was a hire from within on the Giants so while he doesn’t fit “the example given” he certainly qualifies as a success.

    Now - there aren’t many “from within” success stories cause teams rarely hire from within. Usually a coach is fired due to poor performance - teams don’t go rushing to promote someone from that fired regime. So there is a smaller pool of “from within” guys hired. The question would be how does the “from within” pool compare to the “from outside” pool.

    Heck I’d consider Mike Martz a success for the Rams despite him flaming out.
    And we got George Seifert. 2 SB titles. Followed Walsh from Stanford.
    ...and this one belongs to the Reds.

  19. #58
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    Re: 2019 Cleveland Browns...We're back !!

    Quote Originally Posted by puca View Post
    It seems to me you're the one with the 'panties in a wad'. I simply asked whether we should expect you to spend as much energy on the Bengals thread questioning their head coaching hire as you do on a thread for a team you don't care about. That question seemed to send you off on personal attack mode.
    And my reply was about your post...not you personally. I described your post as whining. Fair game. Sorry you can't handle that

  20. #59
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    Re: 2019 Cleveland Browns...We're back !!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Bill Parcells? You're going back 36 yrs to dig that one up? 18 of the past 20 hires from w/i have been a failure, including the last ten. Recent history is that hires from w/i do not work. And we know this in Cincinnati...Bill Johnson, Homer Rice, Bruce Coslet, Dick Lebeau, Steakhouse Dave

    - - - Updated - - -



    No doubt. You're making my point. They are the standard to strive for
    Who are the last 20 hires from within? I have no clue myself and am interested. The only 2 from within guys I see currently in the league are Garrett and Kitchens. Garrett is pretty blah so far but I wouldn’t call him a failure as you did.

  21. #60
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    Re: 2019 Cleveland Browns...We're back !!

    Quote Originally Posted by Assembly Hall View Post
    And we got George Seifert. 2 SB titles. Followed Walsh from Stanford.
    Can you get me an example from the 21st century?


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