Turn Off Ads?
Page 19 of 19 FirstFirst ... 91516171819
Results 271 to 276 of 276

Thread: Senzel to SD?

  1. #271
    Member #13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Posts
    121

    Re: Senzel to SD?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinsm View Post
    So you're advocating for the Reds to trade Roark, Puig, Kemp, Hughes, Hernandez, Wood, etc. right now? And if they don't trade them now, and don't trade for an ace and sign a CF'er, then they are continuing their 1/2 in and 1/2 out philosophy that has failed them for 5 years now?

    I don't think that helps them combat having the worst attendance since 1984.
    I am not advocating on trading away any of those players. They are all FA after this season and at minimum value. I have no problem with trying to trade and be competitive this year or years to come but you can't trade prospects for 1,2,3 year old contracts and expect to consistently win each year. The plan was to rebuild or reboot, not draft high and trade away for expiring contracts, veterans with their best years behind them and throw away the last 5 years of the plan. Who cares about attendance and 1984?? Attendance will be down from that era no matter what type of team is on the field. Every game is on television, baseball is not the number one sport anymore, the cost to watch a game in person for a family of four is a lot more expensive than it was 35 years ago. If the Reds trade their top prospect/s for Kluber they are still 1/2 in and 1/2 out after this year...that's what I am saying. The rebuild was botched by BC who was worried about attendance and fan perception. He botched the rebuild trades by not going full rebuild and had one foot in and one out to appease the fans/season ticket holders/sponsors. I have gone through this once before and the Reds are about to see the light at the end of the tunnel and now most people are saying let's trade x,y,and z and get these players for a year or two so we can compete for a wild card. You trade your top prospects if you are ready to win a division or a WS, not a wild card spot. The 1990 WS would not have been possible if the Reds traded away the "crown jewels" in the mid to late 80's. Larkin, O'Neil, Browning, Sabo, Davis, etc. They traded a veteran (Parker) for Rijo, young talent (depth) Stillwell for Jackson and got two good starting pitchers in return....this was after a couple of 2nd place finishes in the division.
    Last edited by #13; 01-17-2019 at 08:37 PM.


  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #272
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Posts
    69

    Re: Senzel to SD?

    Quote Originally Posted by #13 View Post
    I am not advocating on trading away any of those players. They are all FA after this season and at minimum value. I have no problem with trying to trade and be competitive this year or years to come but you can't trade prospects for 1,2,3 year old contracts and expect to consistently win each year. The plan was to rebuild or reboot, not draft high and trade away for expiring contracts, veterans with their best years behind them and throw away the last 5 years of the plan. Who cares about attendance and 1984?? Attendance will be down from that era no matter what type of team is on the field. Every game is on television, baseball is not the number one sport anymore, the cost to watch a game in person for a family of four is a lot more expensive than it was 35 years ago. If the Reds trade their top prospect/s for Kluber they are still 1/2 in and 1/2 out after this year...that's what I am saying. The rebuild was botched by BC who was worried about attendance and fan perception. He botched the rebuild trades by not going full rebuild and had one foot in and one out to appease the fans/season ticket holders/sponsors. I have gone through this once before and the Reds are about to see the light at the end of the tunnel and now most people are saying let's trade x,y,and z and get these players for a year or two so we can compete for a wild card. You trade your top prospects if you are ready to win a division or a WS, not a wild card spot. The 1990 WS would not have been possible if the Reds traded away the "crown jewels" in the mid to late 80's. Larkin, O'Neil, Browning, Sabo, Davis, etc. They traded a veteran (Parker) for Rijo, young talent (depth) Stillwell for Jackson and got two good starting pitchers in return....this was after a couple of 2nd place finishes in the division.
    The Dodgers, Cubs, Red Sox just to name the ones that come immediately to mind, don't have trouble selling out game after game. Every game is on TV, and the cost of a game is HUGE in those towns. But they don't have trouble selling tickets.

    Your point about attendance seems to fit only in places where teams seldom put s good product on the field.

    But again the issue is mute. Look at the Enquirer's latest article. They proclaim the Reds are past rebuilding with the latest trades.

    Let's look at what is best in the win-now reality.

  4. #273
    Member #13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Posts
    121

    Re: Senzel to SD?

    Quote Originally Posted by redinla View Post
    The Dodgers, Cubs, Red Sox just to name the ones that come immediately to mind, don't have trouble selling out game after game. Every game is on TV, and the cost of a game is HUGE in those towns. But they don't have trouble selling tickets.

    Your point about attendance seems to fit only in places where teams seldom put s good product on the field.

    But again the issue is mute. Look at the Enquirer's latest article. They proclaim the Reds are past rebuilding with the latest trades.

    Let's look at what is best in the win-now reality.
    .500 team this year and then back to 60 plus wins for the next 5 years. That's what is going to happen if they trade prospects for veterans at this point. Unless BC decides to open the check book and signs Keuchel, Pollack, etc. If the Reds would have been pro active and traded Gennett last off season for a starting pitcher this thread would not be needed. I am hoping for the best, looking for a great season/s.

  5. #274
    Member RedsManRick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Guelph, ON
    Posts
    19,441

    Re: Senzel to SD?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marsh15 View Post
    The core of the team that’s been the output of the rebuild has to prove it can compete

    Until they do. They can’t trade their best prospects
    How do you determine the point at which that has happened? There are always more prospects on the way. This year Senzel is on the cusp and Winker is hopefully ready to contribute every day. Next year maybe it's Trammel and Santillan. Who knows if/when the pitching will ever develop.

    Ultimately, unless you get quite lucky, it's unlikely you ever reach a point where you reach competitiveness on the talents of your developing prospects alone. Usually there comes a point where you pull the trigger and turn some of that future talent in to present talent to get over the hump.

    I'm completely open to arguments that next offseason is the time do that -- or maybe this trade deadline if everything breaks right. In fact, I'm actually somewhat inclined to make that argument myself. But actually making that argument requires some standard by which you say "we've now reach the point at which the core of the rebuild is in place and it is time to supplement."
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  6. Likes:

    Ron Madden (01-18-2019)

  7. #275
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    52

    Re: Senzel to SD?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    How do you determine the point at which that has happened? There are always more prospects on the way. This year Senzel is on the cusp and Winker is hopefully ready to contribute every day. Next year maybe it's Trammel and Santillan. Who knows if/when the pitching will ever develop.

    Ultimately, unless you get quite lucky, it's unlikely you ever reach a point where you reach competitiveness on the talents of your developing prospects alone. Usually there comes a point where you pull the trigger and turn some of that future talent in to present talent to get over the hump.

    I'm completely open to arguments that next offseason is the time do that -- or maybe this trade deadline if everything breaks right. In fact, I'm actually somewhat inclined to make that argument myself. But actually making that argument requires some standard by which you say "we've now reach the point at which the core of the rebuild is in place and it is time to supplement."

    How do we determine the point that the reds core players from the rebuild can hold their own, and would be complimented by trade help?

    HOw about not lose 95 games. they lost more games last year than they did in 2016 and 2017

    The 'Rebuild' isnt even close to being over. They need 2 Corey Klubers to even sniff .500

  8. #276
    Member Kinsm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    5,778

    Re: Senzel to SD?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marsh15 View Post
    How do we determine the point that the reds core players from the rebuild can hold their own, and would be complimented by trade help?
    I wouldn't wait till Votto is 40 to try it.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | Gallen5862 | Plus Plus | Powel Crosley | RedlegJake | The Operator