2019 Hall of Fame induction class

[Assembly Hall]

You are right. Mariners also wasted two great years in the Minors. I was pissed at the time for leaving him in AAA. He hit like .360 and .345 those years. If you'd seen him man 3rd Base, he was better than Ron Cey before Edgar tore his knee twice early in his career. Presley was not good enough to hold him back, but Presley had come up through the organization and was one of their first Stars along with Alvin Davis, so they stayed with Presley too long whil Edgar wasted two years of his early prime in AAA. Tacoma and the PCL put out bloated stats back then, but one look at Edgar in his first season in AAA and any scout had to know he was already better than Presley and ready to take over Third Base.

Thank you. I looked at his stats, the injury part was easy to figure out. But I have some family that lives out that way and I remember a cousin telling me that the M's didn't bring him up when they should have. I wonder what his stat line could have been?

[Kingspoint]

Thank you. I looked at his stats, the injury part was easy to figure out. But I have some family that lives out that way and I remember a cousin telling me that the M's didn't bring him up when they should have. I wonder what his stat line could have been?

I know. It's like Ted Williams going into WWII early in his career (not to mention him going into the Korean War seven years later...wow.) Edgar lost about 4-5 very good years, and still made the adjustments and did what he did. It's why we know we have really good years left with Votto...he puts the mental and physical work in constantly and makes whatever adjustments he needs to. Eventually, age will catch up to him, but he could then play four years in Toronto.

[Kingspoint]

Thank you. I looked at his stats, the injury part was easy to figure out. But I have some family that lives out that way and I remember a cousin telling me that the M's didn't bring him up when they should have. I wonder what his stat line could have been?

Your cousin, like so many, could as easily see a Rainier game as they could a Mariner game, but with Edgar, he also proved it in Spring Training. I mean how many times does a guy have to OPS like he did before getting called up? It was a bad habit of the Mariner's at the time. He wasn't the only one they left in AAA too long.

[Assembly Hall]

Your cousin, like so many, could as easily see a Rainier game as they could a Mariner game, but with Edgar, he also proved it in Spring Training. I mean how many times does a guy have to OPS like he did before getting called up? It was a bad habit of the Mariner's at the time. He wasn't the only one they left in AAA too long.

I will see him come July at the annual family reunion. We always talk sports, specifically baseball. I will ask him to refresh my memory.

Who else did they leave down there too long?

[Kingspoint]

I will see him come July at the annual family reunion. We always talk sports, specifically baseball. I will ask him to refresh my memory.

Who else did they leave down there too long?

I worked the baseball card side of a shop in Vancouver, Wa from '86 - '88 so I was pretty close to the situation at the time, but I'd have to go back and look for specifics. Edgar was the obvious.

[Kingspoint]

I worked the baseball card side of a shop in Vancouver, Wa from '86 - '88 so I was pretty close to the situation at the time, but I'd have to go back and look for specifics. Edgar was the obvious.

It's tough getting old. I forgot Seattle's Minor League AAA was Calgary before Tacoma.

[Kingspoint]

Dave Valle should not have spent 1986 in Calgary.

Mickey Brantley should not have spent the whole 1986 season in Calgary or started the 1987 season there.

Harold Reynolds should not have spent any of the '85 season or any of the '86 season in Calgary. He should have been called up permanently halfway through the '84 season in Salt Lake instead of wasting his whole year there.


That's just a few. The Mariners had a bad history of wasting good years on young talent.

[Big Klu]

Bowden always seemed to assume that if a guy could run and looked good in his uniform he was somehow a "five tooler" even if the guy couldn't hit MLB pitching.

Curtis Goodwin only had two tools. He could run, and he could field (he had decent instincts in CF).

He wasn't much of a hitter, he had no power, and he didn't have much of an arm. He wasn't Jack McKeon's type of player, because he played only nine games after Trader Jack became the manager in 1997.

Curtis Goodwin came along 10-20 years too late. With his speed and fielding ability, he could have hung around the game as a backup CF in the 70's and 80's (sort of a lesser version of Herm Winningham). But the game was changing, and even though there were still a few AstroTurf fields around (including Riverfront Stadium), his type of player was becoming obsolete. He was out of baseball by the age of 26.

[EricTheGoat44]

If Griffey wasn't unanimous, then no way a relief pitcher should be. It's absolutely the Yankee factor.

[cumberlandreds]

If Griffey wasn't unanimous, then no way a relief pitcher should be. It's absolutely the Yankee factor.

If it was the Yankee factor then why wasn't Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig,Joe DiMaggio,Mickey Mantle and of more recent times Reggie Jackson unanimous? I think its just smarter voters.

[RedsBaron]

[QUOTE=Kinsm;3892484]The one intriguing take from this year's ballot... It's all about how you finish your career.

Player A through his age 34 season:
1629 G

Interesting comparison between Berkman and Votto.
I think that Votto will do better in HOF voting, in part because he has been just a bit better than Berkman, but also because he has been "the man" when one thinks of the Reds of his era, clearly the Reds best player and biggest star. While Berkman may have had seasons where he was the Astros best player, he was usually regarded as no more than the third best player on the team, a lesser star than Bagwell or Biggio.

[RedsBaron]

If it was the Yankee factor then why wasn't Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig,Joe DiMaggio,Mickey Mantle and of more recent times Reggie Jackson unanimous? I think its just smarter voters.

And voters wedded to a stupid tradition. "Well, if DiMaggio wasn't unanimous then Willie Mays can't be unanimous. If Mays wasn't unanimous then Junior Griffey can't be unanimous."

[reds77]

If Griffey wasn't unanimous, then no way a relief pitcher should be. It's absolutely the Yankee factor.

It's easy to reach that conclusion, but it's now about voters with better judgement in decision making. Think of all the legends in the HoF that should have been 100% voted in during their first year on the ballot. To name some: Ruth, Williams, Mays, Mantle, Bench, Ripken Jr., Griffey Jr., and so many more. The BBWAA journalists and writers have had a long over inflated sense of self importance that results in fool hearted decision making like saying a player such as Willie Mays is not 100% a HoF. More players should get 100% of the vote in the future and I suspect Jeter will in '20 as he should.

[Chip R]

If it was the Yankee factor then why wasn't Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig,Joe DiMaggio,Mickey Mantle and of more recent times Reggie Jackson unanimous? I think its just smarter voters.

I saw where some guy publicly released his ballot on Twitter or somewhere and he didn't have Rivera on it. People basically shamed him into including Rivera on his final ballot. It's smarter voters and it's also peer/public pressure too. Also, as much as people like to complain about the selection process it's much better than it used to be when people like Frankie Frisch got his pals in.

And voters wedded to a stupid tradition. "Well, if DiMaggio wasn't unanimous then Willie Mays can't be unanimous. If Mays wasn't unanimous then Junior Griffey can't be unanimous."

Even DiMaggio wasn't elected in his first year of eligibility. But the process was different then.

[Kingspoint]

It also matters who you are going up against. Ruth had the toughest competition ever.