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Thread: Bob Kraft charged with soliciting prostitution

  1. #91
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    Re: Bob Kraft charged with soliciting prostitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    why is law enforcement doing something that's not legal?
    There's a lot of ignorance/incompetence in law enforcement (and most other places, too).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    That's a legal question and where maybe you can help us. I do have a couple questions though. If it's no big deal to get this thrown out then why is law enforcement using these videos? Shouldn't they know how to set up a sting operation that'll hold up in court? If this was a slam dunk, why didn't more legal experts predict this? This got a lot of coverage and I can't say I ever heard in Feb that the video would likely be thrown out 'cause it was illegal. Let's start with RZ. Did you or anyone else see this coming (the video being thrown out)? I heard an expert on WLW and some on ESPN. None of them predicted this.
    I don't know if it was a slam dunk or not, but apparently they weren't exactly breaking new ground with their legal theories. The ESPN/WLW experts likely didn't have enough facts to know whether or not the sting was properly executed.

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  3. #92
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    Re: Bob Kraft charged with soliciting prostitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Red View Post
    There's a lot of ignorance/incompetence in law enforcement (and most other places, too).

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    I don't know if it was a slam dunk or not, but apparently they weren't exactly breaking new ground with their legal theories. The ESPN/WLW experts likely didn't have enough facts to know whether or not the sting was properly executed.
    Of course no legal expert can speak with certainty on the case but I never heard the term "minimization" until yesterday:

    “The Court finds that the search warrant does not contain required minimization guidelines, and that minimization techniques employed in this case did not satisfy constitutional requirements,” Hanser wrote in his order, granting Kraft’s motion to suppress the video evidence.

    Kraft’s lawyers made minimization – the steps taken not to record innocent visitors to the Orchids of Asia Day Spa in Jupiter – a large part of their arguments during a three-day hearing into the matter and in hundreds of pages of court filings in recent weeks.Prosecutors said four people – two men and two women – who visited the spa were recorded, although they were not among the 25 men and four women charged.
    That sure sounds like a legalese term...it also sounds like a technicality but that's just me. How can you help but film innocent people in a sting like this?

    Next step and probably Kraft's biggest problem, is keeping the video from being released to the internet. This was never about money or jail time. It's about his reputation and the NFL.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...pa/1193905001/

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    Re: Bob Kraft charged with soliciting prostitution

    Of course it's a "technicality". All rules of evidence are basically "technicalities". But there are generally valid policy reasons why such rules and technicalities exist.

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    Re: Bob Kraft charged with soliciting prostitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    why is law enforcement doing something that's not legal?


    Umm, because the Sun rose this morning?

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    Re: Bob Kraft charged with soliciting prostitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Red View Post
    Of course it's a "technicality". All rules of evidence are basically "technicalities". But there are generally valid policy reasons why such rules and technicalities exist.
    I don't understand what law enforcement did wrong here. Do you? What more can they do to protect the innocent customers in these videos?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Sheed View Post


    Umm, because the Sun rose this morning?
    It's a lot of effort to set up these stings. If it's all for naught because it'll get thrown out then what's the point?

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    Re: Bob Kraft charged with soliciting prostitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    If it's all for naught because it'll get thrown out then what's the point?
    1. People in the suburbs get really mad about these massage parlors in their communities, so police resources are directed there

    2. Police probably like this kind of work for all kinds of reasons, it's safe, they get to have a big press conference saying they stopped human trafficking, sometimes Vice even gets to go in and get a "massage"
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  8. #97
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    Re: Bob Kraft charged with soliciting prostitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I don't understand what law enforcement did wrong here. Do you? What more can they do to protect the innocent customers in these videos?

    It's a lot of effort to set up these stings. If it's all for naught because it'll get thrown out then what's the point?
    I'd have to read the opinion to get the specifics, but I suspect it would have been easy enough for someone in their county's DA office to read the ruling from the next county over (mentioned above) and lay out the protections prescribed in that opinion to the police running the operation. You'd hope the police were working with the DA's office on this sting. Someone in the PD or the DA's office screwed it up. Probably not particularly unusual.

    I'm guessing the point was to catch bad guys (or at least guys doing bad things). I'm sure they didn't intend to screw this up and get the evidence tossed. Most times it's incompetence and not malice that is the problem. However, in this particular case does it really matter? The actual legal consequences to Kraft were likely to be basically meaningless. The damage has already been done to him in terms of all the ink spilled on this story.

  9. #98
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    Re: Bob Kraft charged with soliciting prostitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Red View Post
    I'd have to read the opinion to get the specifics, but I suspect it would have been easy enough for someone in their county's DA office to read the ruling from the next county over (mentioned above) and lay out the protections prescribed in that opinion to the police running the operation. You'd hope the police were working with the DA's office on this sting. Someone in the PD or the DA's office screwed it up. Probably not particularly unusual.

    I'm guessing the point was to catch bad guys (or at least guys doing bad things). I'm sure they didn't intend to screw this up and get the evidence tossed. Most times it's incompetence and not malice that is the problem. However, in this particular case does it really matter? The actual legal consequences to Kraft were likely to be basically meaningless. The damage has already been done to him in terms of all the ink spilled on this story.
    I still have lots of questions here but I agree with your bottom line. First of all wasn't the purpose here to find sex trafficking and not to bust customers? Why didn't they find trafficking? If no one working there was being trafficked then it really does help Kraft's public stance on this. Embarrassing I suppose that a billionaire with a 30 something girlfriend needs to get his jollies this way but do any of us care if this was fair business transaction where he asks for a service, someone agrees to provide it, payment is agreed upon and made? It seems like that's all that happened here.

  10. #99
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    Re: Bob Kraft charged with soliciting prostitution

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I still have lots of questions here but I agree with your bottom line. First of all wasn't the purpose here to find sex trafficking and not to bust customers? Why didn't they find trafficking? If no one working there was being trafficked then it really does help Kraft's public stance on this. Embarrassing I suppose that a billionaire with a 30 something girlfriend needs to get his jollies this way but do any of us care if this was fair business transaction where he asks for a service, someone agrees to provide it, payment is agreed upon and made? It seems like that's all that happened here.
    Sounds a lot like drugs. Gambling. Prostitution. Alcohol, for a time there.

    Down the rabbit hole we go... next stop? The Nanny State. Population, all of us.
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