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Thread: Is India a bust?

  1. #16
    Member corkedbat's Avatar
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    Re: Is India a bust?

    JFC

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  4. #17
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Is India a bust?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    I know I'm usually the person preaching patience, and I still am here because I'm far far from writing him off, but I have to admit I have doubts about India. I thought he was a perfectly sensible pick but I was never in love with him coming out of college like I was with Senzel.

    Honestly, I thought he was drafted intended to be trade bait, and so I'm a bit disappointed the Reds weren't able to pull the trigger on moving him for a large piece this offseason.
    April 14th
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  5. #18
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    Re: Is India a bust?

    This has got to be something like an RZ record for early call of a bust. Anybody keeping records?

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  7. #19
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Is India a bust?

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    This has got to be something like an RZ record for early call of a bust. Anybody keeping records?
    I think some were calling Hunter Greene a bust before he was drafted.

    But completely unironically, yeah, I think it is.

    Pretty absurd.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by madeirawood View Post
    Yeah, i know it is awfully early in the season. If he had raked during last years half season i wouldn't be worried at all. But he didn't.
    He had an .814 OPS across 3 levels last year...

    Ya know what, not going to even debate it.

    This thread is ridiculous. Full stop.
    What would you say.....ya do here?

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  9. #20
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    Re: Is India a bust?

    He definitely appears to be a bust so far, yes.

    Mickey Moniak-esque.

    FWIW, the Reds and other teams seem to agree. Word is that the Reds were "aggressively shopping" him during the offseason and nobody was biting.
    Last edited by Kirito-Sama; 04-15-2019 at 08:21 AM.

  10. #21
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Is India a bust?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirito-Sama View Post
    He definitely appears to be a bust so far, yes.

    Mickey Moniak-esque.

    FWIW, the Reds and other teams seem to agree. Word is that the Reds were "aggressively shopping" him during the offseason and nobody was biting.
    In what way is it Mickey moniak-esque?

    Moniak has a career .675 OPS - India has an .800 OPS.

    I really don’t get the hand wringing here. It’s 41 plate appearances.
    What would you say.....ya do here?

  11. #22
    Wait... What? Vander's Avatar
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    Re: Is India a bust?

    1. He's not a bust. Just stop.
    2. He's had 41 ABs this year. Senzel has had stretches of bad play over more than that, believe it or not.
    3. He's not a bust. Just stop.
    4. No matter how you rationalize your belief that he's a bust with "Oh, but I didn't like him coming out of the draft hurdy hur" or "Well, I know it's early, BUTTTTTT", you're still guilty of overreacting to a sample size that's ludicrous.
    5. Seriously? He's not a freakin' bust, guys. Jeez.
    6. No one should be compared to Senzel. Ever. If you use him as the barometer for whether someone is a successful prospect or not, then you are setting these poor kids up for disappointment. Senzel got the highest bonus in his draft class and then still WAY outperformed anyone's expectations for him. You can be worse than Senzel and still be awesome.
    7. Just... Please... Please stop with this.

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  13. #23
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    Re: Is India a bust?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    In what way is it Mickey moniak-esque?

    Moniak has a career .675 OPS - India has an .800 OPS.

    I really don’t get the hand wringing here. It’s 41 plate appearances.
    Lol! Don't mess up a another "he's a bust" thread by bringing in facts and reality.

    I guess I go back to the scouting reports before India was drafted. Even if you are convinced that the Reds scouting department is sub-par, out-of-date, and lacking in every possible way, India was still ranked fairly high by other scouts - both other teams and the typical scouting gurus.

    As to the reports that the Reds were trying to pawn India off on other teams this winter, I am extremely skeptical of those "unnamed inside sources." It sounds to me that whole story was an attempt to negotiate a trade deal in the media. Somebody wanted Senzel, and were miffed when the Reds offered India instead. Suddenly India is being "shopped openly" by the Reds. Don't buy it for a second.
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  14. #24
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Is India a bust?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeS21 View Post
    Lol! Don't mess up a another "he's a bust" thread by bringing in facts and reality.

    I guess I go back to the scouting reports before India was drafted. Even if you are convinced that the Reds scouting department is sub-par, out-of-date, and lacking in every possible way, India was still ranked fairly high by other scouts - both other teams and the typical scouting gurus.

    As to the reports that the Reds were trying to pawn India off on other teams this winter, I am extremely skeptical of those "unnamed inside sources." It sounds to me that whole story was an attempt to negotiate a trade deal in the media. Somebody wanted Senzel, and were miffed when the Reds offered India instead. Suddenly India is being "shopped openly" by the Reds. Don't buy it for a second.
    Basically the marlins wanted Senzel and/or Tramm for Realmuto.

    The reds said no and offered India +.

    That = the reds were trying to pawn off India on all of MLB because they know he sucks apparently.
    What would you say.....ya do here?

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  16. #25
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    Re: Is India a bust?

    Moniak .846 ops
    India .678 ops
    Realmuto .634 ops

    Realmuto is the bust, you guys. Moniak is clearly the best player of the three.

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  18. #26
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    Re: Is India a bust?

    He has 230 professional at bats. Are you serious with this?


    Votto hit .256/.330/.425 as a 21 year old in A ball so lets pump the breaks a little.
    Last edited by HammerTime; 04-15-2019 at 10:09 AM.

  19. #27
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    Re: Is India a bust?

    Very few prospects rocket through the minors without any hiccups.

    India's biggest problem is Senzel. Senzel's success (and similarity) has affected the perception of how prospects develop around here.

    Like any No. 5 pick, he'll have his ups and downs, and like other No. 5 picks, he may well wash out. Pretty hard to say how things will shake out at this point, but it's unlikely it'll be a smooth path forward no matter how successful he ultimately is.

  20. #28
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    Re: Is India a bust?

    For comparison sake, here are all the #5 overall draft picks, sorted by WAR:

    Year Rnd DT FrRnd RdPck Tm Signed Name Pos WAR G
    1982 1 FrRnd 5 Mets Y Dwight Gooden(minors) RHP 52.9 318
    2001 1 FrRnd 5 Rangers Y Mark Teixeira(minors) 3B 51.8 1862
    1974 1 FrRnd 5 Braves Y Dale Murphy(minors) C 46.5 2180
    2005 1 FrRnd 5 Brewers Y Ryan Braun(minors) 3B 46.0 1596
    1998 1 FrRnd 5 Cardinals Y J.D. Drew(minors) OF 44.9 1566
    2008 1 FrRnd 5 Giants Y Buster Posey(minors) C 41.1 1158
    1997 1 FrRnd 5 Blue Jays Y Vernon Wells(minors) OF 28.5 1731
    1987 1 FrRnd 5 White Sox Y Jack McDowell(minors) RHP 27.8 0
    2007 1 FrRnd 5 Orioles Y Matt Wieters(minors) C 18.0 1083
    1986 1 FrRnd 5 Braves Y Kent Mercker(minors) LHP 12.0 637
    2006 1 FrRnd 5 Mariners Y Brandon Morrow(minors) RHP 11.3 115
    2010 1 FrRnd 5 Indians Y Drew Pomeranz(minors) LHP 10.4 65
    1996 1 FrRnd 5 Expos N John Patterson(minors) RHP 5.0 84
    1965 1 FrRnd 5 Red Sox Y Billy Conigliaro(minors) OF 4.6 347
    1969 1 FrRnd 5 Angels N Alan Bannister(minors) SS 3.6 972
    1995 1 FrRnd 5 Athletics Y Ariel Prieto(minors) RHP 3.2 1
    1976 1 FrRnd 5 Padres Y Bob Owchinko(minors) LHP 2.0 164
    1968 1 FrRnd 5 Dodgers Y Bobby Valentine(minors) OF 2.0 639
    1978 1 FrRnd 5 Padres Y Andy Hawkins(minors) RHP 1.3 200
    2004 1 FrRnd 5 Brewers Y Mark Rogers(minors) RHP 1.1 12
    1981 1 FrRnd 5 Blue Jays Y Matt Williams(minors) RHP 0.4 0
    1994 1 FrRnd 5 Marlins Y Josh Booty(minors) SS 0.0 13
    2012 1 FrRnd 5 Royals Y Kyle Zimmer(minors) RHP -0.1 0
    2017 1 FrRnd 5 Braves Y Kyle Wright(minors) RHP -0.3 7
    2013 1 FrRnd 5 Indians Y Clint Frazier(minors) 3B -0.3 65
    Year Rnd DT FrRnd RdPck Tm Signed Name Pos WAR G
    1971 1 FrRnd 5 Royals Y Roy Branch(minors) RHP -0.3 0
    1984 1 FrRnd 5 Reds Y Pat Pacillo(minors) RHP -0.7 19
    2015 1 FrRnd 5 Astros Y Kyle Tucker(minors) OF -0.9 28
    1993 1 FrRnd 5 Royals Y Jeff Granger(minors) LHP -0.9 9
    1992 1 FrRnd 5 Reds Y Chad Mottola(minors) OF -0.9 59
    1989 1 FrRnd 5 Rangers Y Donald Harris(minors) OF -1.4 82
    2000 1 FrRnd 5 Expos Y Justin Wayne(minors) RHP -1.5 26
    1990 1 FrRnd 5 Pirates Y Kurt Miller(minors) RHP -2.6 44
    2018 1 FrRnd 5 Reds Y Jonathan India(minors) 3B
    2016 1 FrRnd 5 Brewers Y Corey Ray(minors) OF
    2014 1 FrRnd 5 Twins Y Nick Gordon(minors) SS
    2011 1 FrRnd 5 Royals Y Bubba Starling(minors) OF
    2009 1 FrRnd 5 Orioles Y Matt Hobgood(minors) RHP
    2003 1 FrRnd 5 Royals Y Chris Lubanski(minors) OF
    2002 1 FrRnd 5 Expos Y Clint Everts(minors) RHP
    1999 1 FrRnd 5 Twins Y B.J. Garbe(minors) OF
    1991 1 FrRnd 5 Brewers N Ken Henderson(minors) RHP
    1988 1 FrRnd 5 Dodgers Y Bill Bene(minors) RHP
    1985 1 FrRnd 5 White Sox Y Kurt Brown(minors) C
    1983 1 FrRnd 5 Athletics Y Stan Hilton(minors) RHP
    1980 1 FrRnd 5 Padres Y Jeff Pyburn(minors) OF
    1979 1 FrRnd 5 Athletics N Juan Bustabad(minors) SS
    1977 1 FrRnd 5 Tigers Y Kevin Richards(minors) RHP
    1975 1 FrRnd 5 Brewers Y Rick OKeeffe(minors) LHP
    1973 1 FrRnd 5 Indians Y Glenn Tufts(minors) INF
    Year Rnd DT FrRnd RdPck Tm Signed Name Pos WAR G
    1972 1 FrRnd 5 Expos Y Bobby Goodman(minors) C
    1970 1 FrRnd 5 Phillies Y Mike Martin(minors) LHP
    1967 1 FrRnd 5 Senators Y Johnny Jones(minors) C
    1966 1 FrRnd 5 Cubs Y Dean Burk(minors) RHP
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  22. #29
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    Re: Is India a bust?

    Quote Originally Posted by WrongVerb View Post
    For comparison sake, here are all the #5 overall draft picks, sorted by WAR:
    By my count that's 21 who didn't (or have yet to) reach the majors, 21 who produced a positive WAR and 12 who produced negative or 0 WAR. Odds are against India.

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  24. #30
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    Re: Is India a bust?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vander View Post
    6. No one should be compared to Senzel. Ever. If you use him as the barometer for whether someone is a successful prospect or not, then you are setting these poor kids up for disappointment. Senzel got the highest bonus in his draft class and then still WAY outperformed anyone's expectations for him. You can be worse than Senzel and still be awesome.
    Yeah, apples to apples comparisons are totally unfair.

    Do you actually have any thoughts/observations about Jonathan India or is it just going to be more blather about other posters?
    Last edited by M2; 04-15-2019 at 10:53 AM.
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