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Thread: IU Football-2019

  1. #16
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    Re: IU Football-2019

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfanmia View Post
    He should have won the Heisman honestly just like Anthony Thompson should have.
    Good gravy, that's some crimson-colored glasses stuff right there.

    In 2010, Randle El's best statistical season, he ran for 1,270 and 13 TDs. He also completed 48 percent of his passes and tossed 14 picks to 10 TDs.

    That's a heckuva a football season, but let's not get carried away. It was a three-win football team.

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    Re: IU Football-2019

    Quote Originally Posted by BillDoran View Post
    Good gravy, that's some crimson-colored glasses stuff right there.

    In 2010, Randle El's best statistical season, he ran for 1,270 and 13 TDs. He also completed 48 percent of his passes and tossed 14 picks to 10 TDs.

    That's a heckuva a football season, but let's not get carried away. It was a three-win football team.
    It was never confined to only Hoosier fans.

    Beano Cook (and other media members with no ties to IU) stated the following arguments in favor of Randle EL (among others) circa '99:

    1)Chris Weinke (the eventual Heisman winner) has the luxury of a game manger role, as he's surrounded with plenty of play-makers on both sides of the ball. Randle El has not been afforded such a luxury.

    2)As talented as he is/was, Michael Vick would've been hard-pressed to lead IU to more wins than Randle El had the two QBs switched teams.

    3)Within the B1G alone, Minnesota and Illinois each won 7 plus games with Billy Cockerham and Kurt Kittner, respectively, as QBs, and both were, once again, surrounded by better balance and talent than Randle El - to say nothing of the mediocre QBs of the conference top-dog Michigan, OSU and Penn State at the time.

    If one wants to shoot down the argument that Randle El should have won the Heisman, fine. But it's borderline criminal that he was never in the conversation.

    Anthony Thompson for Heisman, OTOH, is a separate argument altogether, but at least he was (rightfully so) very much in the conversation.
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    Assembly Hall (06-23-2019)

  5. #18
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    Re: IU Football-2019

    [QUOTE=BillDoran;3967215]Good gravy, that's some crimson-colored glasses stuff right there.

    In 2010, Randle El's best statistical season, he ran for 1,270 and 13 TDs. He also completed 48 percent of his passes and tossed 14 picks to 10 TDs.

    That's a heckuva a football season, but let's not get carried away. It was a three-win football team.[/QUOTE

    Your probably right, 16 year old me was very disappointed when AT lost the Heisman to Andre Ware.
    Randle-El should have been in the conversation, it’s an individual award not a team award.
    When I see the 2016 Reds, I see a 100 loss team and no direction.

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    Re: IU Football-2019

    [QUOTE=redsfanmia;3967618]
    Quote Originally Posted by BillDoran View Post
    Good gravy, that's some crimson-colored glasses stuff right there.

    In 2010, Randle El's best statistical season, he ran for 1,270 and 13 TDs. He also completed 48 percent of his passes and tossed 14 picks to 10 TDs.

    That's a heckuva a football season, but let's not get carried away. It was a three-win football team.[/QUOTE

    Your probably right, 16 year old me was very disappointed when AT lost the Heisman to Andre Ware.
    Randle-El should have been in the conversation, it’s an individual award not a team award.
    I remember watching Randle El as a kid and being blown away. Over time, I feel like I kinda forgot how good he was though. The running QBs of the 20th century - among the likes of Vince Young, Pat White and Denard Robinson - along with Randle El's NFL success as a receiver, made his time in Bloomington fade a bit. He was dynamic, and I was surprised to seeing the running numbers he put up in his time at IU.

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    ...and this one belongs to the Reds.

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    Revering4Blue (06-24-2019)

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    Re: IU Football-2019

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfanmia View Post
    How many wins in the Cam Cameron era without Randle-El? 5-6 maybe?
    Probably, though he left a pretty decent team to Dinardo.
    There were 6-7 guys who ended up playing on the edges of the NFL on the team that Dinardo took over.
    Looked it up, not counting the guys like Hamden and Justin Smith who only played 1 year in NFL. There were 8 players who at the very least made an NFL roster in multiple seasons on the team that Dinardo took over. (Jeremi Johnson*,Kris Dielman, Courtney Roby, Victor Adeyanju, Herena-Daze Jones, Isaac Sowells, Chris Taylor, Enoch DeMarr)
    *Johnson of course transferred after DiNardo informed him that "his offense didn't use a FB".
    Dinardo went 3-8 his first year while waiting on Matt LoVecchio to rescue the offense.

    In my 20+ years of IU fandom, there's very few people that I actively dislike. Certain coaches were over their heads. Certain players have disappointed obviously.
    But I don't really feel any anger towards them.
    Gerry Dinardo may be the exception. I'm not sure. It's obviously irrational at this point, but what I see more than anything on the long, narrow, treacherous road IUFB has to travel just to become mediocre is how much it hurts to start over.
    So my frustration with Dinardo isn't so much that he sucked.(He did) But rather, it's that by hiring DiNardo instead of someone competent, IU set itself back 10 years.
    Last edited by Hoosier Red; 07-05-2019 at 05:00 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRed27 View Post
    Honest I can't say it any better than Hoosier Red did in his post, he sums it up basically perfectly.

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    Re: IU Football-2019

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfanmia View Post
    How many wins in the Cam Cameron era without Randle-El? 5-6 maybe?
    Jim Boeheim Voice, "Without Antwaan Randle-El we would have won 5 <Bleeping> Games"
    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRed27 View Post
    Honest I can't say it any better than Hoosier Red did in his post, he sums it up basically perfectly.

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    Re: IU Football-2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    Probably, though he left a pretty decent team to Dinardo.
    There were 6-7 guys who ended up playing on the edges of the NFL on the team that Dinardo took over.
    Looked it up, not counting the guys like Hamden and Justin Smith who only played 1 year in NFL. There were 8 players who at the very least made an NFL roster in multiple seasons on the team that Dinardo took over. (Jeremi Johnson*,Kris Dielman, Courtney Roby, Victor Adeyanju, Herena-Daze Jones, Isaac Sowells, Chris Taylor, Enoch DeMarr)
    *Johnson of course transferred after DiNardo informed him that "his offense didn't use a FB".
    Dinardo went 3-8 his first year while waiting on Matt LoVecchio to rescue the offense.

    In my 20+ years of IU fandom, there's very few people that I actively dislike. Certain coaches were over their heads. Certain players have disappointed obviously.
    But I don't really feel any anger towards them.
    Gerry Dinardo may be the exception. I'm not sure. It's obviously irrational at this point, but what I see more than anything on the long, narrow, treacherous road IUFB has to travel just to become mediocre is how much it hurts to start over.
    So my frustration with Dinardo isn't so much that he sucked.(He did) But rather, it's that by hiring DiNardo instead of someone competent, IU set itself back 10 years.

    I think you could probably say the same thing about Bill Lynch, he was a competent coach but not at a Big Ten level. I know he took over for Hep and lead them to a bowl for the first time in ever but he was never the long term solution.
    When I see the 2016 Reds, I see a 100 loss team and no direction.

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    Re: IU Football-2019

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfanmia View Post
    I think you could probably say the same thing about Bill Lynch, he was a competent coach but not at a Big Ten level. I know he took over for Hep and lead them to a bowl for the first time in ever but he was never the long term solution.
    Definitely. I've never had any anger towards him though as he I see it more that he did the best he could in a terrible situation.
    I generally don't begrudge coaches(or players) who are simply not good enough. That's not usually their fault.

    But DiNardo came in talking a big game, apparently ticked everyone in the university off, and was so overwhelmingly sub-mediocre that everyone was all too happy to see him gone.
    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRed27 View Post
    Honest I can't say it any better than Hoosier Red did in his post, he sums it up basically perfectly.

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    Re: IU Football-2019

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfanmia View Post
    I think you could probably say the same thing about Bill Lynch, he was a competent coach but not at a Big Ten level. I know he took over for Hep and lead them to a bowl for the first time in ever but he was never the long term solution.
    Some coaches have a ceiling of coordinator, and are damn good at it, but are not head coaching material (even at the MAC level). Lynch was/is such a coach. IIRC, his Ball State teams were awful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    Definitely. I've never had any anger towards him though as he I see it more that he did the best he could in a terrible situation.
    I generally don't begrudge coaches(or players) who are simply not good enough. That's not usually their fault.

    But DiNardo came in talking a big game, apparently ticked everyone in the university off, and was so overwhelmingly sub-mediocre that everyone was all too happy to see him gone.
    Supposedly, at the time, Urban Meyer (BGSU's HC at the time) was interested in the then-IU opening. But he would have just utilized the IU job as a steppingstone. Meanwhile, DiNardo had previously turned down the opportunity to succeed Lou Holtz at Notre Dame, beaten both Fullmer and Spurrier while LSU's HC. And let's face it, IU was/is considered one of the toughest D1 jobs, certainly one of the toughest B1G jobs.

    So, given his resume at the time, DiNardo seemed to be a reasonable hire. I remember reading an article a few years back in which he (DiNardo) stated he made a grievous error in designing an offense at IU which nearly mirrored the Miami Hurricane West Coast/Gulf Coast offense minus, of course, the Miami (much less LSU) personnel. In other words, he would have been more successful running an offense along the same lines as his Vanderbilt and Colorado-coordinated offenses. As a bonus, Jeremi Johnson would have certainly thrived in such an offense.
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    Assembly Hall (07-08-2019)

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    Re: IU Football-2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Revering4Blue View Post
    Some coaches have a ceiling of coordinator, and are damn good at it, but are not head coaching material (even at the MAC level). Lynch was/is such a coach. IIRC, his Ball State teams were awful.
    To be fair to Bill, as I recall he was kneecapped by the administration. If I remember correctly, he didn't have the money to recruit out of state.

    I think he wasn't even a great coordinator at IU but is now coaching at a level that makes sense for him. He's the head coach at DePauw and has been pretty successful there. I think D-2 makes sense for a coach who tempermentally is not suited to be as ruthless and singularly focuased as you probably need to be at the D1 level.

    The Indiana job is a really hard one to start with. And it becomes harder when IU makes a bad hire because the next guy has to make up for his predecessor's failings.
    Ultimately, there are two contradictory forces that get in the way of IU's success.
    1)Have to give whomever it is enough time to truly set the program on the right path.
    2)You have to cut bait on the wrong coach before he sets the program back any further.

    Bringing things full circle, that's why I'm kinda okay with Allen where he is right now. THey have to give him sufficient time and resources to put his plan into action. Even if he's not ultimately the right coach, his recruiting results show that if they do move on, the next coach isn't starting pinned inside his own 5 yard line like so many previous IU coaches were.
    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRed27 View Post
    Honest I can't say it any better than Hoosier Red did in his post, he sums it up basically perfectly.

  17. #27
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    Re: IU Football-2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    To be fair to Bill, as I recall he was kneecapped by the administration. If I remember correctly, he didn't have the money to recruit out of state.

    I think he wasn't even a great coordinator at IU but is now coaching at a level that makes sense for him. He's the head coach at DePauw and has been pretty successful there. I think D-2 makes sense for a coach who tempermentally is not suited to be as ruthless and singularly focuased as you probably need to be at the D1 level.

    The Indiana job is a really hard one to start with. And it becomes harder when IU makes a bad hire because the next guy has to make up for his predecessor's failings.
    Ultimately, there are two contradictory forces that get in the way of IU's success.
    1)Have to give whomever it is enough time to truly set the program on the right path.
    2)You have to cut bait on the wrong coach before he sets the program back any further.

    Bringing things full circle, that's why I'm kinda okay with Allen where he is right now. THey have to give him sufficient time and resources to put his plan into action. Even if he's not ultimately the right coach, his recruiting results show that if they do move on, the next coach isn't starting pinned inside his own 5 yard line like so many previous IU coaches were.
    I am but one voice in Hoosier Nation. But in my lifetime IU has never made a bad hire concerning the HC of the football program. Lee Corso was a good hire. Sam Wyche was a good hire. Bill Mallory was a great hire. Cam Cameron was a good hire. DiNardo was a good hire. Hoeppner was a good hire. Now comes Bill Lynch taking over for Terry, can't blame IU for it whatsoever. Circumstances dictated the move. Wilson was a good hire...and now we are back to circumstances leading to Allen being the HC.

    The bottom line is that we have had some guys that can coach. The reality is that it is just damn difficult to win in Bloomington.
    ...and this one belongs to the Reds.

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