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Thread: Reds 2019-2020 International signing period - back in business

  1. #31
    Member corkedbat's Avatar
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    Re: Reds 2019-2020 International signing period - back in business

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    If anything it just feels good to be spending big money on 16 year olds like the rest of the MLB does.
    How quickly names like Juan Duran & Yorman Rodriguez fade from memory.

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  3. #32
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    Re: Reds 2019-2020 International signing period - back in business

    Quote Originally Posted by corkedbat View Post
    How quickly names like Juan Duran & Yorman Rodriguez fade from memory.
    It was 11 years ago...seems like about 5 though.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

  4. #33
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    Re: Reds 2019-2020 International signing period - back in business

    The Reds 16 signings thus far (July 2nd, 2019 to June 15th, 2020)

    Reds Pool: 5.94M$


    Pos - Player Name - B - T - Height - Weight - Date of Birth - Singing $ Bonus - Signed Out of
    IF - Triana, Michel - L - R - 6′ 3″ - 230 - 11/23/1999 - $1,300,000 - Cuba
    P - Almonte, Brayan - R - R - 6′ 2″ - 180 - 8/25/2001 - unknown - Dominican Republic
    C - Salcedo, Andruw - S - R - 5′ 11″ - 175 - 9/29/2002 - $300,000 - Colombia
    OF - Torres, Jesus - R - R - 6′ 0″ - 160 - 10/2/2002 - unknown - Venezuela
    IF - Inirio, Wencer - R - R - 6′ 3″ - 190 - 10/28/2002 - unknown - Dominican Republic
    IF - Martinez, Cesar - S - R - 6′ 0″ - 175 - 11/18/2002 - unknown - Dominican Republic
    OF - Confidan, Yerlin - L - L - 6′ 3″ - 170 - 12/16/2002 - unknown - Dominican Republic
    OF - Chirino, Ray-Jacson - R - R - 6′ 1″ - 175 - 12/24/2002 - unknown - Curacao
    IF - Espinoza, Iverson - R - R - 5′ 10″ - 155 - 1/6/2003 - unknown - Venezuela
    IF - Bernal, Agustin - R - R - 5′ 9″ - 145 - 3/17/2003 - unknown - Venezuela
    C - Garcia, Juan - R - R - 5′ 11″ - 185 - 5/3/2003 - unknown - Colombia
    IF - Castro, Arian - S - R - 6′ 1″ - 160 - 6/3/2003 - unknown - Dominican Republic
    IF - Minier, Braylin - L - R - 6′ 0″ - 160 - 6/11/2003 - $1,800,000 - Dominican Republic
    OF - Alcantara, Deivid - R - R - 6′ 2″ - 180 - 6/14/2003 - $550,000 - Dominican Republic (Born in Puerto Rico - Raised in Dominican Republic)
    IF - Ascanio, Johnny - R - R - 5′ 10″ - 150 - 7/4/2003 - unknown - Venezuela
    IF - Caminero, Junior - R - R - 5′ 11″ - 160 - 7/5/2003 - unknown - Dominican Republic

  5. #34
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Reds 2019-2020 International signing period - back in business

    Amazing to see the dollars given out to 16 yr olds. I would think MLB would want some sort of draft for international players. That's like spending millions on a scratch off lottery ticket

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    CrackerJack (08-03-2019)

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    Re: Reds 2019-2020 International signing period - back in business

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Amazing to see the dollars given out to 16 yr olds. I would think MLB would want some sort of draft for international players. That's like spending millions on a scratch off lottery ticket
    They do want the draft, but if they do, I'd either guess that either it'll be hard-capped at $1-2MM+ in the early rounds, or no hard-cap and players can negotiate within a window.

    If they do a draft, I hope it's reasonable on the draft slots, or players can negotiate reasonably, because that's going to limit the earnings of many international players who will only see that kind of money at this juncture.
    "Do we need to have 280 brands of breakfast cereal? No, probably not. But we have them for a reason - because some people like them. It's the same with baseball statistics." ~ Bill James

  8. #36
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    Re: Reds 2019-2020 International signing period - back in business

    Quote Originally Posted by CRDB40 View Post
    They do want the draft, but if they do, I'd either guess that either it'll be hard-capped at $1-2MM+ in the early rounds, or no hard-cap and players can negotiate within a window.

    If they do a draft, I hope it's reasonable on the draft slots, or players can negotiate reasonably, because that's going to limit the earnings of many international players who will only see that kind of money at this juncture.
    It'll have to be capped salary-wise in some way. Just about all drafts nowadays are. I understand it's great for these teenagers from the DR right now but it's a huge waste of money for MLB. They have to shut off this gravy train

  9. #37
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    Re: Reds 2019-2020 International signing period - back in business

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    It'll have to be capped salary-wise in some way. Just about all drafts nowadays are. I understand it's great for these teenagers from the DR right now but it's a huge waste of money for MLB. They have to shut off this gravy train
    In some way, yes. Hence the reference to the negotiating window - similar to the amateur draft.
    "Do we need to have 280 brands of breakfast cereal? No, probably not. But we have them for a reason - because some people like them. It's the same with baseball statistics." ~ Bill James

  10. #38
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    Re: Reds 2019-2020 International signing period - back in business

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    It'll have to be capped salary-wise in some way. Just about all drafts nowadays are. I understand it's great for these teenagers from the DR right now but it's a huge waste of money for MLB. They have to shut off this gravy train
    Why? What's the downside to the league as a whole?
    If individual teams found this to be a poor use of resources, I'd think there would be a simple solution wouldn't there be? Heck, since the league allows teams to trade their international cap allocations, if the Reds think it's not worth it to spend $2 million on a "lottery ticket," they can trade their international cap room for a more ready prospect.

    When you say it's a huge waste of money, I'm not sure MLB would agree. If you hit on even one out of 20 prospects and he becomes a star player, then you're living large on his production for 6 cost controlled (major league) seasons at least. That doesn't even count the more numerous players who are positive assets as they ascend through the minors and can be traded and/or become useful major league players.
    I am curious if there are teams who spread their signing bonuses out more than others. Instead of $1.5 million to 1 one prospect, giving $250k to 6 or something.
    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRed27 View Post
    Honest I can't say it any better than Hoosier Red did in his post, he sums it up basically perfectly.

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    Kinsm (07-18-2019)

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    Re: Reds 2019-2020 International signing period - back in business

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    It'll have to be capped salary-wise in some way. Just about all drafts nowadays are. I understand it's great for these teenagers from the DR right now but it's a huge waste of money for MLB. They have to shut off this gravy train
    Why would they? Last year, there were 145 ML players from the DR. 107 from Venezuela. Our very own Louis Castillo was a such a signing as a teenager. He was twice traded for major league players before becoming a good one himself.

    Teams will stop throwing money at these guys when it stops being worth it to them.

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    Hoosier Red (07-18-2019)

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    Re: Reds 2019-2020 International signing period - back in business

    For every 1 prospect from the Caribbean that an MLB team throws big money at and loses out in the long run, there is 1 that blossoms into a great player and gets almost no signing bonus.

    And MLB as a whole has not spent big in the international market until about the last 10 year anyway. In fact, up until the past 2 years only 10 international players had signed for more than 4.0M$ and less than 120 had received more than a 1M$ bonus.

    For example; Suarez signed for 12K$, Yorman Rodriguez 2.5M$.

  15. #41
    Moderator Kinsm's Avatar
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    Re: Reds 2019-2020 International signing period - back in business

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Amazing to see the dollars given out to 16 yr olds. I would think MLB would want some sort of draft for international players. That's like spending millions on a scratch off lottery ticket
    https://blogs.fangraphs.com/we-analy...g-bonus-money/

  16. #42
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    Re: Reds 2019-2020 International signing period - back in business

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinsm View Post
    For every 1 prospect from the Caribbean that an MLB team throws big money at and loses out in the long run, there is 1 that blossoms into a great player and gets almost no signing bonus.

    And MLB as a whole has not spent big in the international market until about the last 10 year anyway. In fact, up until the past 2 years only 10 international players had signed for more than 4.0M$ and less than 120 had received more than a 1M$ bonus.

    For example; Suarez signed for 12K$, Yorman Rodriguez 2.5M$.
    This is 2 years old but it backs that up....

    http://redlegsbaseball.proboards.com...nuses-all-time

  17. #43
    Middle Class Rut TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Reds 2019-2020 International signing period - back in business

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinsm View Post
    For every 1 prospect from the Caribbean that an MLB team throws big money at and loses out in the long run, there is 1 that blossoms into a great player and gets almost no signing bonus.

    And MLB as a whole has not spent big in the international market until about the last 10 year anyway. In fact, up until the past 2 years only 10 international players had signed for more than 4.0M$ and less than 120 had received more than a 1M$ bonus.

    For example; Suarez signed for 12K$, Yorman Rodriguez 2.5M$.
    Acuna, was $100K I think.
    Use a Cocktail Stick!

  18. #44
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    Re: Reds 2019-2020 International signing period - back in business

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    Why? What's the downside to the league as a whole?
    If individual teams found this to be a poor use of resources, I'd think there would be a simple solution wouldn't there be? Heck, since the league allows teams to trade their international cap allocations, if the Reds think it's not worth it to spend $2 million on a "lottery ticket," they can trade their international cap room for a more ready prospect.

    When you say it's a huge waste of money, I'm not sure MLB would agree. If you hit on even one out of 20 prospects and he becomes a star player, then you're living large on his production for 6 cost controlled (major league) seasons at least. That doesn't even count the more numerous players who are positive assets as they ascend through the minors and can be traded and/or become useful major league players.
    I am curious if there are teams who spread their signing bonuses out more than others. Instead of $1.5 million to 1 one prospect, giving $250k to 6 or something.
    Very few of those 16 yr old multimillion dollar bonus babies will make it. That makes it a waste of money. No other league gives 16 yr olds such lucrative contracts and baseball takes the most development. I'm sure they'd like a draft and cut down on those bonuses.

    The only DR guy I can think of that the Reds have gotten much out of in this century is Johnny Cueto

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    CrackerJack (08-03-2019)

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    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Reds 2019-2020 International signing period - back in business

    Quote Originally Posted by CaiGuy View Post
    Why would they? Last year, there were 145 ML players from the DR. 107 from Venezuela. Our very own Louis Castillo was a such a signing as a teenager. He was twice traded for major league players before becoming a good one himself.

    Teams will stop throwing money at these guys when it stops being worth it to them.
    They'll not shut off the flow of players. Just the flow of $$ to those players


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