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Thread: Votto and the choking up

  1. #46
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Votto and the choking up

    Quote Originally Posted by davereds24 View Post
    I don't know why the choking up has become a few more inches, I'm more concerned that he can't get a piece of a Rich Hill 90mph fastball while choked up that much. Something is off with his vision or swing plane. Maybe he can have Pete come in and help him out.
    A perfect example of his lost bat speed was during Saturday's game. He had an AB vs Walker Buehler where he was ahead 3-0. Joey likes to whack 3-0 pitches. It this case Buehler threw him a 96 mph FB right down the middle of the plate and Joey popped out to LF. That's a shame. It was really sad. He was geared up for a certain pitch in a certain location and he still couldn't do anything with it. I don't think he has any business swinging 3-0 anymore

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  3. #47
    Someday Never Comes mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Votto and the choking up

    Votto seems to have lost his opposite field power. Last year, he adjusted and tried to pull the ball more and most of his HR were pulled to RF, but that seemed to play into the shift. It looks like this year he's trying to adjust to beat the shift and the adjustment just hasn't been successful. I wish he'd just go back to the swing that got him to where he was and forget about all the other stuff. He probably wouldn't be .950 OPS Votto, but if he could be .825 OPS Votto, he'd at least be productive. Right now, he's a big disadvantage because every other team in the division has an All Star caliber player at 1B. I think he'll figure it out and hit, just not like he used to.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

  4. #48
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    Re: Votto and the choking up

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I think he'll figure it out and hit, just not like he used to.
    I hope you're right but I have no reason to think this will change. He knew coming into the season that he had "issues". He's been working on them since before Spring Training. I think he's been working hard. So far as we know he's not injured or coming off an injury. I don't know why he'll figure it out if he hasn't already. I don't know why he'll all of a sudden be able to get around on a Walker Buehler 96 mph FB

  5. #49
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    Re: Votto and the choking up

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Madden View Post
    Votto’s slump has nothing to do with Turner Ward.
    I doubt that any hitting coach has tried to give Joey very much advice in the last 10 years.

    Here’s a quote from Joey.



    https://www.mlb.com/reds/news/joey-v...ove-on-offense
    no matter what joey says to the press, i maintain that turner ward needs to sit him down and watch video of when votto was at peak votto. study the video. compare and contrast it with what votto is doing now. are there big differences in his approach/swing now compared to 2017? if so, get back to what was working.

    now, if turner ward tries to do this and votto rejects him, that's on votto. but it's on turner ward to at least try. those are the types of things that good hitting coaches do, imo. they don't just look at what they are seeing this year; they look back and study what was working better in previous years, and find a way to get their hitters to return to that approach.

    and for clarity, this isn't just about votto choking up. he has always choked up. he does it more now than ever, but he's always done it. the biggest problem i see are things like the 3-0 pitch i mentioned earlier in this thread where votto just hit a lazy fly ball to left. didn't swing very hard. on a 3-0 count with the ball right down the middle. we used to very rarely see votto do that. now we see it quite often.

  6. #50
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    Re: Votto and the choking up

    Quote Originally Posted by gonelong View Post
    A kid on my high school team always choked up - he hated the feel of the knob on his bottom hand. It was a comfort thing.

    I swung hard on everything just in case I made contact, so I liked having the knob up tight against my bottom hand - I would have never dreamed of choking up.
    I feel you guy.....all of this modern hitting for power or striking out....I kind of feel like I was ahead of my time.

  7. #51
    malingered here too long malcontent's Avatar
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    Re: Votto and the choking up

    nm
    Last edited by malcontent; 05-20-2019 at 02:44 PM.
    Everything is perfect, but there is a lot of room for improvement. --- Shunryu Suzuki-roshi

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    Re: Votto and the choking up

    I have two images..
    2015. which is more fluid, more upright, hands up and way better than today. Yes he is older, then go to a lighter bat but keep your stance that gave you success
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	votto 2016 pic 2.jpg 
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    and today.. 2019 hands low, crouched down and looks way off from his past. and that half check swing thing he does , he has done that and NOT hit.. same thing last season.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	votto 2019 pic 1.png 
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ID:	14905
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    Re: Votto and the choking up

    i dont know if we can post a youtube video, but search "Joey Votto v Johnny Cueto 5/2/16" Watch his entire 4 min AB.. no half check swing stuff and crushes the ball" his stance is similar to 2015. Why you go from that is beyond me.. I would get a ounce or 2 lighter bat, not change my stance.

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  12. #54
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    Re: Votto and the choking up

    Outstanding first 2 posts. My take away from this is that his bat speed has slowed so much that he feels he has to take "partial" swings rather than what was a full swing in 2015...yet he's still not getting around. This is either an indictment of his lost bat speed or it's an indication that velocities throughout the league have increased. I will add that Bryce Harper's bat has also looked slow this year. I'm not optimistic that this will improve much for Votto but we'll see

  13. #55
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    Re: Votto and the choking up

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsfan6272 View Post
    I have two images..
    2015. which is more fluid, more upright, hands up and way better than today. Yes he is older, then go to a lighter bat but keep your stance that gave you success
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	votto 2016 pic 2.jpg 
Views:	58 
Size:	34.2 KB 
ID:	14904

    and today.. 2019 hands low, crouched down and looks way off from his past. and that half check swing thing he does , he has done that and NOT hit.. same thing last season.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	votto 2019 pic 1.png 
Views:	65 
Size:	173.2 KB 
ID:	14905
    He isn't consistent with this however: Look at the homer vs Paddack in April and the one from last week. Vs Paddack he is more upright compared to the crouch from the 16th:
    April
    https://www.mlb.com/video/joey-votto...o-center-field

    May
    https://www.mlb.com/video/joey-votto...o-center-field

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsfan6272 View Post
    i dont know if we can post a youtube video, but search "Joey Votto v Johnny Cueto 5/2/16" Watch his entire 4 min AB.. no half check swing stuff and crushes the ball" his stance is similar to 2015. Why you go from that is beyond me.. I would get a ounce or 2 lighter bat, not change my stance.
    You can post youtube by using the tab in the reply which looks like a piece of filmstrip. Copy and paste the URL into the popup

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  15. #56
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    Re: Votto and the choking up

    The big difference I see here is he had a much more closed stance previously. His left hip was pointed at the pitcher and now it is pointed more at the traditional second basemen's position. Personally I would love for him to get his eyes checked. Everybody is talking about Father Time slowing down his swing, but the first effect Father Time has is on eyesight. There are a number of players that apparently were starting a slide down that age hill but were able to get some vision correction and reversed that slide, at least for a while. Jeff King is one who comes to mind.
    "Baseball is only dull to those with dull minds."

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    Re: Votto and the choking up

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsfan6272 View Post
    I have two images..
    2015. which is more fluid, more upright, hands up and way better than today. Yes he is older, then go to a lighter bat but keep your stance that gave you success
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	votto 2016 pic 2.jpg 
Views:	58 
Size:	34.2 KB 
ID:	14904

    and today.. 2019 hands low, crouched down and looks way off from his past. and that half check swing thing he does , he has done that and NOT hit.. same thing last season.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	votto 2019 pic 1.png 
Views:	65 
Size:	173.2 KB 
ID:	14905
    I appreciate the research. Those pictures are a little misleading though, look at the phillies pitcher cs the cubs pitcher. The Phillies pitcher is already mid motion while the Cubs pitcher is still set.

    I would be curious to see where the hands were in relation to each other as the Cubs pitcher starts his delivery.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

  18. #58
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Votto and the choking up

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsfan6272 View Post
    I have two images..
    2015. which is more fluid, more upright, hands up and way better than today. Yes he is older, then go to a lighter bat but keep your stance that gave you success
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	votto 2016 pic 2.jpg 
Views:	58 
Size:	34.2 KB 
ID:	14904

    and today.. 2019 hands low, crouched down and looks way off from his past. and that half check swing thing he does , he has done that and NOT hit.. same thing last season.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	votto 2019 pic 1.png 
Views:	65 
Size:	173.2 KB 
ID:	14905
    I'm obviously no hitting coach, but 2015 looks like a guy ready to do damage while 2019 looks like a guy looking to put a ball in play. That said, I think he changes his stance a bit through the course of the at bat. It's possible the 2019 pic is from a 2 strike count while the 2015 pic isn't.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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  20. #59
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    Re: Votto and the choking up

    so, we all agree he has clearly changed his approach (everything from his stance in the batter's box, to his swing, to choking up even more than ever) from just a few years ago when he was raking. my question is why doesn't he return to that approach? why is no one from the reds sitting down with him to break down video of 2019 votto, and votto who is one of the all-time best hitters in the game? i just don't get it.

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    Re: Votto and the choking up

    I've watched several youtube vids of Votto of the past and the Votto of now. He didn't crouch as much then. He held his bat higher and farther back then. He extended his arms and crushed the ball seemingly at will. Now he is in a more opened stance with his hands much closer to his ear. The one glaring thing that stands out to me is his adoption of that inside-out, Cricket type swing he uses to warm up or when he takes a practice swing between pitches. I believe it has made him more of a Punch & Judy hitter, looking to slap the ball with a more compact swing instead of extending his arms and driving the ball. Balls that used to sail out of the park or go to the wall in the gaps are now weak flies not even to the warning track or easy ground-outs. Joey obviously has never heard the old saying, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it!" He also seems to be very stubborn regarding this issue.

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