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Thread: What do you think SHOULD happen when Scooter comes back?

  1. #61
    Just a Fan RiverfrontRed's Avatar
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    Re: What do you think SHOULD happen when Scooter comes back?

    They need to figure out a way to get Dietrich and Scooter in the lineup at the same time. Peraza shouldn't be a consideration other than defensive backup.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Will never understand RedsZone’s ambivalence about Scooter Gennett.

    All he’s done for two years is perform at a high level.

    If he demands too much, sure let him go, but so far he seems to want to stay.

    We’ll see what the Reds think and do, maybe they agree, but it’s hard for me to see them improving because they trade Scooter.
    Me either. Do the Reds have too many All-Star caliber players on the roster??

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  4. #62
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    Re: What do you think SHOULD happen when Scooter comes back?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Yes, those are the things that BABIP is made of. The question is not whether he earned his BABIP over the past two years. It's how confident we can be that he'll continue to earn that BABIP --- or what level we think he's capable fo sustaining. Almost by definition, any outlier is likely to be a combination of both luck and real underlying factors. It's not about whether it's one or the other --- it's about their relative proportions. Russell Carleton's stabilization work suggests BABIP takes 820 balls in play before it reaches that "half signal, half noise" point. My quick math suggests Gennett is at around 760 balls in play as a Red. So some reasonable amount of BABIP regression should be expected. That still leaves him as a high BABIP hitter in the .320-.330 range. I just knocks him out of the top 10 -- more David Peralta than Christian Yelich.

    Ambivalence is not being dead set against anything. It's entertaining the reasons to think twice. Scooter may very well continue to produce an All-Star level. I don't look lightly at a guy who put up 4.5 WAR season at age 28. That's a level of production the Reds are unlikely to find on the FA market or would have to pay a pretty penny for in trade. On the other hand, you just seem to have more confidence in him continuing to perform at that level than is entirely justified.

    Ultimately, for me, it really comes down to the financial side of things. I would love to have Scooter on the team. I think he's something like a 3 win player. But given his relatively short track record success and the nature of his skill-set, especially his defensive shortcomings, I would not want to have him on a long term deal at fair market value due to the concerns I've already expressed. 2 or 3 years at 10-15M per? Sign me up. 4+ years and/or 15M+ per year? That makes me nervous.
    Good points, some slightly different takes on Gennett on the thread, but no serious disagreement on the bottom line.

    2-3 years, I said about $12 million, you’re in the same ballpark, as are most posts I’ve read. I’m a fan, but even I’m not going 4 years in a weak FA market for players near 30. Maybe a fourth year team option/buy out.

    Reds have four in house FAs to consider, Gennett, Puig, Iglesias, Roark. I don’t view anyone else as a major investment, can’t see Alex Wood being signed with the back issues unless a “make good” situation.

    Will be interesting to see what the Reds think. We’ll start to find out in 5-6 weeks when the deadline trade market gets going.
    Last edited by Kc61; 05-28-2019 at 01:29 PM.

  5. #63
    Member Bigg Red Smokey's Avatar
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    Re: What do you think SHOULD happen when Scooter comes back?

    Peraza will be a RH bat off the bench and DD will be the utility guy + LH off the bench.

    It should be a very versatile roster, IMO for late inning substitutions.

    DD has been most entertaining, everyone in my fam is ticked when he’s not in the lineup.


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  6. #64
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    Re: What do you think SHOULD happen when Scooter comes back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Some slightly different takes on Gennett on the thread, but no serious disagreement on the bottom line.

    2-3 years, I said about $12 million, you’re in the same ballpark, as are most posts I’ve read. I’m a fan, but even I’m not going 4 years in this FA market.

    Reds have four in house FAs to consider, Gennett, Puig, Iglesias, Roark. I don’t view anyone else as a major investment, can’t see Alex Wood being signed with the back issues unless a “make good” situation.

    Will be interested to see what the Reds think. We’ll start to find out in 5-6 weeks when the deadline trade market gets going.
    Finances are important but depth of the organization is a factor too. I don't see anyone currently in the organization that can do what Iglesias can both offensively and defensively at SS. For that reason I'd put him #1 on the re-sign list. If they can afford Scooter, fine. If not, we'll have to fill in with Peraza and Dietrich

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    Re: What do you think SHOULD happen when Scooter comes back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Finances are important but depth of the organization is a factor too. I don't see anyone currently in the organization that can do what Iglesias can both offensively and defensively at SS. For that reason I'd put him #1 on the re-sign list. If they can afford Scooter, fine. If not, we'll have to fill in with Peraza and Dietrich
    Hard to tell, but of the four major free agents, I’d guess Scooter and Iglesias will make more sense financially than Puig and Roark. Roark has been very good, but Reds might want to put his money toward a higher level starter.

    Really too soon to tell, who knows what these players actually want, what Reds are thinking, all just speculation.
    Last edited by Kc61; 05-28-2019 at 01:48 PM.

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    Re: What do you think SHOULD happen when Scooter comes back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Hard to tell, but of the four major free agents, I’d guess Scooter and Iglesias will make more sense financially than Puig and Roark. Roark has been very good, but Reds might want to put his money toward a higher level starter.

    Really too soon to tell, who knows what these players actually want, what Reds are thinking, all just speculation.
    I really like Scooter but he's evidence (along with Dietrich) that 2B can be shaken out of trees. I think his money is better spent elsewhere.

  9. #67
    malingered here too long malcontent's Avatar
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    Re: What do you think SHOULD happen when Scooter comes back?

    I think Diet Rich starts. Somewhere (with the Reds).

    And so does Gennett.
    Everything is perfect, but there is a lot of room for improvement. --- Shunryu Suzuki-roshi

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    Re: What do you think SHOULD happen when Scooter comes back?

    Quote Originally Posted by malcontent View Post
    I think Diet Rich starts. Somewhere (with the Reds).

    And so does Gennett.
    Fact: Everyone called Scooter has natural SS ability.
    Friends don't let friends fWAR.

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    Re: What do you think SHOULD happen when Scooter comes back?

    Just like WOY said. You Casey Stengel mid 50s Yankees the heck out of the lineup by moving people in and out.
    Hurting some feelings along the way by maximizing the offensive potential out of a team that’s already a short bench to begin with. The lack of playing time is less when you always have a 3-4 man bench most of the time

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  15. #70
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    Re: What do you think SHOULD happen when Scooter comes back?

    Quote Originally Posted by malcontent View Post
    I think Diet Rich starts. Somewhere (with the Reds).

    And so does Gennett.
    Dietrich and Scooter will make an insanely popular tag team.
    Eric Stratton, Rush Chairman. Damn glad to meet ya.

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  17. #71
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    Re: What do you think SHOULD happen when Scooter comes back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Dietrich has hit the long ball, but he’s batting .237 and as a team the .232 Reds lack BA hitters. I don't discount BA BA is subject to fluctuation, but Gennett is one of few Reds who hit both for power and for BA. He’s an all around hitter which is not that common on this team. Several posters have commented that Reds have missed Gennett’s bat this year.

    I wouldn’t sell the ranch for him, he’s not Bryce Harper or Manny Machado, but Gennett is easy to underestimate. Reds would be foolish to do so.
    It's true that there were those who said this team missed Gennett's bat. Not really a profound statement, with all due respect, looking how he's performed in this offense, was an all-star - of course any team would miss that bat (LOL). I'm looking forward to his return.

    All I'm saying is that Scooter's return should not diminish Dietrich's ABs (playing time). Not the way Dietrich has performed for this team. I want them both in the lineup! IMO, someone like Peraza should be the loser in this "fight". Me, personally? I'm done with Peraza. Bench player at best IMO. So I don't want a player like Dietrich - especially if you're inclined to trading him (selling high) - losing time to him. Ride the wave.

    But just as there were those that said we missed Gennett's bat (early on) .... there were also many, myself included, who saw this team's early offensive struggles as while perplexing, simply a "team slump". It happens. Sometimes at the beginning, sometimes in the middle, etc. All teams, throughout the season, try to avoid those "valleys". But when you look at the players, their career norms, etc, you know, at some stage, you somewhat assured, these guys are going to hit. And IMO they are. Crappy April offensively; but look at the May offensive numbers overall.

    As for lacking BA hitters.... While I'm not one who discounts BA - there's still some "old school" left in me - and it is part of the reason their offense has struggled early, I also don't put that much stock in it either. Last year, team league average BA's were in the .240's. Other then Boston (.268), the Reds were right there in the pack with all the other post-season teams (.250's). This year's league averages, currently, are .247. The Reds are at .234 (.013) under (and rising). IMO, We have guys on this team who can hit for average. But what's the acceptable "standard" anymore? LOL

    But for the record .... getting Gennett back will definitely be a lift for this team in '19.
    Last edited by GAC; 05-29-2019 at 06:35 AM.
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    Re: What do you think SHOULD happen when Scooter comes back?

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    And it's totally Reds fan to think that Dietrich is going to do this forever
    I don't think anybody thought they'd get the production they got from Scooter for two full seasons. I think sometimes a change of scenery brings out the best in a player. We've seen a lot of ex-Reds get traded only to become All-Stars on the regular.

    It will be interesting to see how Scooter recovers, if he will still be threat at the plate. and particularly how he fields. I think his return to second base should be more gradual. I can't see him having the range of motion he needs to be effective coming off that type of injury.

  20. #73
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    Re: What do you think SHOULD happen when Scooter comes back?

    I don’t really think the lineup has room for both Dietrich and Scooter. Especially not with Votto’s bat coming around finally. Dietrich and Scooter are just too similar players.

    So I don’t know what the answer is. Like I said last night, there’s no way you can bench Dietrich when he’s playing like this. And I think what’s he’s doing is sustainable. Not 1.000 OPS sustainable, but it seems like he should be able to be a mid .800 OPS guy.

    I’m stumped.
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  21. #74
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    Re: What do you think SHOULD happen when Scooter comes back?

    Quote Originally Posted by TruebluJR View Post
    I don't think anybody thought they'd get the production they got from Scooter for two full seasons. I think sometimes a change of scenery brings out the best in a player. We've seen a lot of ex-Reds get traded only to become All-Stars on the regular.

    It will be interesting to see how Scooter recovers, if he will still be threat at the plate. and particularly how he fields. I think his return to second base should be more gradual. I can't see him having the range of motion he needs to be effective coming off that type of injury.
    Scooter won't be scootering much when he comes back from the groin strain. I still see a correction coming for Dietrich, he' s a almost 30 year old guy so his game can drift too far from where it was but he's also under control, cheaper and has a swing built for GAB and is winning the battle for best position player on the team currently.

    Every generation has a couple Geronimo Berroa's show up now and then

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  23. #75
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    Re: What do you think SHOULD happen when Scooter comes back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    Like I said last night, there’s no way you can bench Dietrich when he’s playing like this. And I think what’s he’s doing is sustainable. Not 1.000 OPS sustainable, but it seems like he should be able to be a mid .800 OPS guy.

    I’m stumped.
    Playing a variety of positions all across the field isn't benching him.

    And having a mid 800 OPS bat available every day across seven positions (with others switching positions) is incredibly valuable.


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