Dick Williams

[Tony Cloninger]

$$$$$$$$$$$$

That is not why. Unless Cameron Maybin was that expensive. Money may have helped their bullpen but their offense should not be better than the Reds based on the players history coming into this year.

[757690]

That is not why. Unless Cameron Maybin was that expensive. Money may have helped their bullpen but their offense should not be better than the Reds based on the players history coming into this year.

Money means more than just high priced free agents. It means being able to spend more on role players, spending more on player development, packing the minors with vets, etc. it means always having backups who can fill in for injured starters.

[M2]

They're closer to being a respectable team than they've been the previous four seasons. Don't see why Williams would be on any sort of hot seat at the moment. He's just got to keep active so the improvement becomes continuous.

[Tony Cloninger]

Money means more than just high priced free agents. It means being able to spend more on role players, spending more on player development, packing the minors with vets, etc. it means always having backups who can fill in for injured starters.

I am aware of that however even then they should not be as good as this. They should be about 500 with the players lost.
It’s not like they have Oscar Gamble and Daryl Strawberry sitting on the bench here.

The issue with money spent on the minors and player development is what has held back the Reds from getting better faster. I agree.

So that problem is they can’t find a time machine fast enough to go back to the end of the 2014 season to fire Buckley and Walt.

[Tony Cloninger]

In addition the Reds have built the best bench since 2010-12. They have come through for them. They didn’t even have to spend $$$ to do it. This team has just turned out just good enough to lose and look competitive.

[herbdizzle]

Peraza, Barnhart, Puig, Votto & Schebler have all stunk this year. That's 5 of our Opening Day expected starters going into the year. Votto has turned it around so I'm not gonna pile on him at the moment. But Christ, Scheber's in the minors while the other three are in the bottom 10% of all hitters. Casali should get 75% of the starts for now. I'd give Puig 2 more weeks and if he doesn't catch fire, DFA him. I'd bring up Ervin ASAP and let him start in RF the rest of the year to see what you have with him. The last position player spot can rotate between Van Meter, O'Grady, Longhi & Schebler. If you can get 1 productive player from that trio all the better. This is still a lost year.

[Bob Sheed]

Looks like I won't be eating any Dick crow after all.

[stein1214]

I think we decided the things we like get credited to Nick Krall and the things we don't are Dick's doing.

It did just dawn on me that odds seem awfully high that the Reds would pick up John Mozeliak if the Cardinals were to axe him given their relative mediocrity of the last few seasons.

Which one of them was responsible for hiring Bell?

[Boston Red]

Which one of them was responsible for hiring Bell?

We won today, so obviously it was all Krall. Ask again tomorrow.

[mth123]

I'm as much a Williams skeptic as anyone, but this, like most things, is on the players.

Yasiel Puig, Joey Votto and Scooter Gennett looked like three of the four best hitters coming into the season and 2 are way below their expectations and the other hasn't played. Add big drops from Peraza, Barnhart, Schebler (remember him?) from previous production and its pretty obvious. The reds would be in Orioles territory without Dietrich and Iglesias, but for them, Suarez and Senzel would be the lone players.

As for the pitching, it's been good, but I also think it needs improved to actually be a winning team. The starters just don't go deep enough even when they are pitching well and too many innings are having to be covered by the bullpen and they just don't have enough guys to cover that many. Iglesias is fine, Garrett could be striving towards elite but the others are being asked to fill a role they probably shouldn't. Another late inning guy or two who can push Lorenzen, Hughes and Hernandez more to the middle or multi-inning roles would help a lot. A starter who is more of a number one or two who can put up strong numbers while pitching into the 7th inning would help a ton.

[stein1214]

The starters just don't go deep enough even when they are pitching well and too many innings are having to be covered by the bullpen...

Soooo...whose fault is that?

[RedTeamGo!]

We won today, so obviously it was all Krall. Ask again tomorrow.

Lol, because 1 win erases year of ineptitude? Nah.

[mth123]

Soooo...whose fault is that?

I think it's the pitchers. As much as I hate all the pitching changes, I think it's propping these guys up so they look better than they normally would. I just don't think it's sustainable. Reminds me of a Boxer with a really good won/loss record but hasn't fought the tough guys. I don't think Williams did anything terrible last winter (I'm not worried about Shed Long, Jeter Downs or Josiah Gray). I do think the organization tanked for too long and had too far to go to convert from a horrid to good rotation in one off-season. It's why I wanted them to start adding sooner even if the immediate season wasn't one where they could win. It takes a while to build an entire rotation. Lets see what happens this winter when they have a ton of money to spend.

[stein1214]

I think it's the pitchers. As much as I hate all the pitching changes, I think it's propping these guys up so they look better than they normally would. I just don't think it's sustainable. Reminds me of a Boxer with a really good won/loss record but hasn't fought the tough guys. I don't think Williams did anything terrible last winter (I'm not worried about Shed Long, Jeter Downs or Josiah Gray). I do think the organization tanked for too long and had too far to go to convert from a horrid to good rotation in one off-season. It's why I wanted them to start adding sooner even if the immediate season wasn't one where they could win. It takes a while to build an entire rotation. Lets see what happens this winter when they have a ton of money to spend.

So no issue with guys getting yanked 80 or so pitches into a start because they gave up a 2 out single in the 6th inning? That's the pitcher's fault? That has nothing to do with why the bullpen has had to cover too many inning?

[Griffey012]

I'm as much a Williams skeptic as anyone, but this, like most things, is on the players.

Yasiel Puig, Joey Votto and Scooter Gennett looked like three of the four best hitters coming into the season and 2 are way below their expectations and the other hasn't played. Add big drops from Peraza, Barnhart, Schebler (remember him?) from previous production and its pretty obvious. The reds would be in Orioles territory without Dietrich and Iglesias, but for them, Suarez and Senzel would be the lone players.

As for the pitching, it's been good, but I also think it needs improved to actually be a winning team. The starters just don't go deep enough even when they are pitching well and too many innings are having to be covered by the bullpen and they just don't have enough guys to cover that many. Iglesias is fine, Garrett could be striving towards elite but the others are being asked to fill a role they probably shouldn't. Another late inning guy or two who can push Lorenzen, Hughes and Hernandez more to the middle or multi-inning roles would help a lot. A starter who is more of a number one or two who can put up strong numbers while pitching into the 7th inning would help a ton.

I agree with the first paragraph, but as far as the latter the Reds are 18/30 teams in bullpen innings at 228.1. The Nats are last at 199 but they also have a terrible pen and a rotation that amounts to the Reds payroll, or somewhere near it.

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.as...12-31&sort=7,d

The Reds top reliever in terms of IP is Lorenzen, he is 10th among relievers (not counting Beeks and Pena as they are long guys following openers most often). Hernandez and Iglesias are 35th and 44th. In terms of games, Garrett is 4th and Hernandez is 11th, Lorenzen 28th with 18 others, Iglesias 46th with 23 others.

That's not to say the bullpen wouldn't be improved with another big arm, but the starting pitching and relieving has been good enough to be a first place team. And while the starting pitching doesn't regularly go beyond the 6th inning. They also rarely leave the bullpen out to dry by making an early exit.

The offense just hasn't done their part.