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Thread: NBA 2019-2020 (I知 not your fwend buddy!)

  1. #841
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    Re: NBA 2019-2020 (I知 not your fwend buddy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    Now let's not start living in fantasyland and making things up, which is what the above paragraph is full of including your comments on Orlando.

    MIL lost more than they gained.

    TOR lost a tremendous amount more than they gained.

    The Nets lost a heck of a lot more than they gained.

    BOS lost a tremdous amount more than they gained.

    You're just making stuff up when you say they don't.

    Continuity is important.

    PHI lost more than they gained.

    Only IND gained more than they lost and that's only because Oladipo will be coming back.
    That's a giant pile of wrong.

    The Nets picked up Kyrie Irving, Taurean Price, DeAndre Jordan, Garrett Temple, Wilson Chandler and some guy named Kevin Durant (though his availability next year won't be until late if at all). That's on top of Dinwiddie, LeVert and Allen, who have their best years in front of them.

    The Pacers grabbed Malcolm Brogdon, T.J. Warren and Jeremy Lamb on top of getting Dipo back. That team is so much more dangerous that it was last year. If anyone's picking a "sleeper" in the east, I don't see how Indiana's not the choice.

    The Celtics brought in Kemba and Enes Kanter (whom you were aching to keep) in addition to having a young core that's only getting better. It's year 3 for Jayson Tatum too. They've also got a new pile of kids who looked really good in Summer League, including Tacko Fall, who thinks Mo Bamba is a short-armed midget.

    Al Horford and Josh Richardson are different than Jimmy Butler and J.J. Redick, better overall defense (J.J.'s a pylon) and rebounding, possibly better ball movement (Al's a great glue guy). Yet Philly has a much deeper bench. It's loaded for bear.

    Milwaukee's down Brogdon, but Giannis is only 25. They've still got an array of shooting around a stud player still coming into his prime. They won 60 games last season and there's no particular reason they can't do it again.

    Toronto's worse, which perhaps puts them into a push with the Magic (unless the Raptors decide to sell and rebuild, in which case the Magic ought to be at the front the line for Kyle Lowry).

    Basically, all the teams you underrated last year you're underrating again.
    Last edited by M2; 07-18-2019 at 04:03 PM.
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  3. #842
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    Re: NBA 2019-2020 (I知 not your fwend buddy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rojo Rijo View Post
    "If their plan was that everyone else would have a bad season, they are going to be severely disappointed."

    I'm trying to follow you here but all I'm coming up with is you think signing Vucevic, Ross, and Aminu and getting Bamba back does nothing for this team. You bring up "A" seasons out of Vucevic, Augustin, and Ross and only winning 42 games but break the season in half and the more recent half looks much better than the picture you're painting. Orlando was a 17-24 first half team and then a 25-16 second half team. That 26-15 team is what the NBA is going to get next season plus Aminu and Bamba. I don't care if Fultz plays or he doesn't, this team is still going to be the team they were in the second half of last season or better. As far as the GM being "non committal" all Hammond said was "He looks great, he's working hard, he's not playing in the SL but we didn't expect him to, and we want to get him to a level where he is comfortable and we hope its sooner rather than later". That's it. Sure he's unable to commit to an exact time frame for Fultz but you're treating it like he just said "I don't know" and its not that simple.
    IIRC, Orlando had a much cushier schedule in the 2nd half. Vuce and Ross make them exactly as good as Vuce and Ross did last season. Aminu strikes me as redundant. That team did not need another PF. And is Bamba good? He's weird and frequently injured. Seems like a project to me. The imbalance on that team seems fairly extreme. Maybe they make Gordon a point forward or Isaac takes a leap forward, but they look to be at a pace-and-space disadvantage to me. I just think there's a lower ceiling for a team that plays a throwback offense.

    Nothing's simple with Fultz. That's my point. He has mental breakdowns out on the court. I feel for him as a human being. No one should be counting on him as a basketball player.
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  4. #843
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    Re: NBA 2019-2020 (I知 not your fwend buddy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    The Celtics brought in Kemba and Enes Kanter (whom you were aching to keep) in addition to having a young core that's only getting better. It's year 3 for Jayson Tatum too. They've also got a new pile of kids who looked really good in Summer League, including Tacko Fall, who thinks Mo Bamba is a short-armed midget.
    1. I'd argue losing Horford and Irving is a huge drop-off in talent when comparing to Kanter and Walker. That said, it might well make Boston a better team. There's something to be said for chemistry. (I'm not sure what it is, but it can be screwed up.)

    2. If Boston fans are putting their hopes in UDFA Tacko Fall to be a difference-maker after seeing him in Summer League, they have set themselves up for disappointment. Even if he works out to his 90th percentile, he's Bobo without the ears. (Which makes him about 90% less cool than Bobo.)

    3. All four of the top seeds in the East lost a substantial amount of talent.

    Philly lost Butler and Redick, two difference-makers in their starting lineup. They got back a couple of glue guys and some semblance of a bench. That may work out for them. It may not.

    Milwaukee lost their third best player from last season and best non-Giannis ball-handler. They didn't replace him. That'll hurt.

    Boston, we've talked about already. Losing Kyrie and Uncle Al is a lot.

    Toronto lost the best player not named Giannis in the East. (And he might be better, honestly. He was in the playoffs.) He was not replaced either.

    That doesn't mean any of those teams will be horrible or even worse than they were.

    I'd still take all four of them over Orlando without thinking.

    (And I agree with you about Indiana. That team could well be the top seed come playoff time.)
    Last edited by Bourgeois Zee; 07-18-2019 at 09:13 PM.

  5. #844
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    Re: NBA 2019-2020 (I知 not your fwend buddy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    All four of the top seeds in the East lost a substantial amount of talent.
    Like I said, most of them shifted onto other players. My current take on where they fall is:

    1-2: Milwaukee and Philly

    3. Indiana

    4-5: Brooklyn and Boston

    6-8: Miami, Toronto and Orlando

    9-10: Detroit and Chicago

    - Bledsoe was/is the Bucks' best non-Giannis ballhandler.

    - I don't think anyone's counting on Tacko, but everyone loves him because he's a human skyscraper (which is why I mentioned him). Grant Williams and Carsen Edwards look like they're going to get 2nd unit minutes. I've got no idea what's up with Romeo Langford, or why they picked him.
    I'm not a system player. I am a system.

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    Re: NBA 2019-2020 (I知 not your fwend buddy!)

    Orlando is not good enough to make it out of the first round of the playoffs. Credit to them for fielding a competitive team instead of tanking but they池e cannon fodder.

  7. #846
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    Re: NBA 2019-2020 (I知 not your fwend buddy!)

    FWIW, Portland lost a tremendous amount of talent. Hood is not as good as Aminu and Bazemore is not as good as Harkless. Skal is not as good as Meyers Leonard or whoever Olshey adds late is not as good as Meyers Leonard as a backup Center. This doesn't even include the losses of Kanter and Curry, who was their closing 5th player at the end of games instead of Harkless or Aminu.

    Olshey did a reboot as they are looking for two Wings they can count on in the playoffs for 2020-21 when Olshey will have 21 Million to spend during the Summer before that season, or $15M if Hood and Hejonja pick up their player options. Perhaps one of Hood, Hejonja (sp?), Trent, Jr, Bazemore can prove capable of knocking down three's in the clutch (in the playoffs), inspiring Olshey to keep them around another cpuple of years.

    I totally expect a trade by Olshey at the trade deadline. He'll be patient and wait until then. No need to do anything, yet, despite not having a backup Center (unless Skal is it) or a backup PG unless Simons is it). They also lost Turner, and for all of his bad points, he had a lot of good ones. He won that Game 7 in Denver.

    They are completely redoing their Offense and Defense with emphasis on Wings who can hit the Corner "3"'s and an elite rim-protector in the middle.

    I think they make the playoffs, but they'll be floating in that 5th-9th area for most of the season.

    They can't compete in the regular season with (my order of regular-season finish):

    DEN
    UTA
    LAC
    HOU

    ...then a 3-4 game dropoff in the loss column for the next tier...

    GSW
    LAL
    POR
    SAS
    DAL
    Last edited by Kingspoint; 07-19-2019 at 08:46 AM.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

  8. #847
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    Re: NBA 2019-2020 (I知 not your fwend buddy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    FWIW, Portland lost a tremendous amount of talent. Hood is not as good as Aminu and Bazemore is not as good as Harkless. Skal is not as good as Meyers Leonard or whoever Olshey adds late is not as good as Meyers Leonard as a backup Center. This doesn't even include the losses of Kanter and Curry, who was their closing 5th player at the end of games instead of Harkless or Aminu.

    Olshey did a reboot as they are looking for a two Wings they can count on in the playoffs for 2020-21 when Olshey will have 21 Million to spend during the Summer before that season, or $15M if Hood and Hejonja don't pick up player options. Perhaps one of Hood, Hejonja (sp?), Trent, Jr, Bazemore.

    I totally expect a trade by Olshey at the trade deadline. He'll be patient and wait until then. No need to do anything, yet, despite not having a backup Center (unless Skal is it) or a backup PG unless Simons is it). They also lost Turner, and for all of his bad points, he had a lot of good ones. He won that Game 7 in Denver.

    They are completely redoing their Offense and Defense with emphasis on Wings who can hit the Corner "3"'s and an elite rim-protector in the middle.

    I think they make the playoffs, but they'll be floating in that 5th-9th area for most of the season.

    They can't compete in the regular season with (my order of regular-season finish):

    DEN
    UTA
    LAC
    HOU

    ...then a 3-4 game dropoff in the loss column for the next tier...

    GSW
    LAL
    POR
    SAS
    DAL
    Don't forget OKC and SAC too. OKC might sell everyone, but if they don't they're a solid team. With SAC, we're going to find out if Luke Walton can coach.
    I'm not a system player. I am a system.

  9. #848
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    Re: NBA 2019-2020 (I知 not your fwend buddy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Don't forget OKC and SAC too. OKC might sell everyone, but if they don't they're a solid team. With SAC, we're going to find out if Luke Walton can coach.
    We know Steve Kerr can coach. WCS is underrated. I think he and Russell flourish at GSW and GSW are the likeliest team to battle with the Top-4 for the regular season. These are just my regular season rankings and after preseason I'm going to redo things, though the biggest change will likely be to Minnesota and Sacramento. I think OKC has a bad HC. Don't think they are a candidate for anything there. But, I've seen bad coaches become good coaches with experience.

    Gentry, btw, is a great coach. Have to keep an eye on NOP.
    Last edited by Kingspoint; 07-19-2019 at 08:41 AM.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

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  11. #849
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    Re: NBA 2019-2020 (I知 not your fwend buddy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Like I said, most of them shifted onto other players.
    And like I said, those players almost all obviously less talented.

    Kanter < Horford
    Walker < Irving
    Horford or Richardson < Butler
    Wes Matthews < Brogdon

    The only positive acquisition in terms of overall talent among the top four Eastern seeds is Richardson over Redick. And that's arguable.

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    Re: NBA 2019-2020 (I知 not your fwend buddy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    And like I said, those players almost all obviously less talented.

    Kanter < Horford
    Walker < Irving
    Horford or Richardson < Butler
    Wes Matthews < Brogdon

    The only positive acquisition in terms of overall talent among the top four Eastern seeds is Richardson over Redick. And that's arguable.
    The only two playoff teams in the East who I think are more talented than they were after all the moves are Indiana and Brooklyn but Brooklyn isn't going to have Durant for most of, if not the whole season and Indiana is replacing six of their top nine guys in terms of minutes played.

  13. #851
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    Re: NBA 2019-2020 (I知 not your fwend buddy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    And like I said, those players almost all obviously less talented.

    Kanter < Horford
    Walker < Irving
    Horford or Richardson < Butler
    Wes Matthews < Brogdon

    The only positive acquisition in terms of overall talent among the top four Eastern seeds is Richardson over Redick. And that's arguable.
    I think Kemba's going to work way better than Kyrie did because his teammates don't hate him and he'll increase the pace of play. Kanter's no Horford, but Boston's got a pile of young players all getting better to more than cover that difference in the aggregate.

    Why would you compare Horford to Butler? Completely different players. Though if you feel the need to do so, they had identical PERs.

    My general view is what matters most is how well a given team fits together. Can it attack/defend? Does it play with pace? Do the players complement each other? Does it have a bench? I like what a lot of the east did this summer.
    I'm not a system player. I am a system.

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    Re: NBA 2019-2020 (I知 not your fwend buddy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    We know Steve Kerr can coach. WCS is underrated. I think he and Russell flourish at GSW and GSW are the likeliest team to battle with the Top-4 for the regular season. These are just my regular season rankings and after preseason I'm going to redo things, though the biggest change will likely be to Minnesota and Sacramento. I think OKC has a bad HC. Don't think they are a candidate for anything there. But, I've seen bad coaches become good coaches with experience.

    Gentry, btw, is a great coach. Have to keep an eye on NOP.
    Agreed about GSW. Also think the Pels have sleeper potential. They've got a deep squad and Favors might have been a sneaky pickup.

    I'm not high on Donovan either, but CP3, Gallo, Adams and SGA is a good core, and OKC has a bench. I don't see where the Wolves are poised to make any kind of move. That team is KAT and a whole lot of nothing. Worst backcourt in the NBA? Might be.
    I'm not a system player. I am a system.

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    Re: NBA 2019-2020 (I知 not your fwend buddy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    I think Kemba's going to work way better than Kyrie did because his teammates don't hate him and he'll increase the pace of play. Kanter's no Horford, but Boston's got a pile of young players all getting better to more than cover that difference in the aggregate.

    Why would you compare Horford to Butler? Completely different players. Though if you feel the need to do so, they had identical PERs.

    My general view is what matters most is how well a given team fits together. Can it attack/defend? Does it play with pace? Do the players complement each other? Does it have a bench? I like what a lot of the east did this summer.
    You're talking about the same player who was upset he didn't get the last shot even after his teammate hit the game winner from like halfcourt. Kemba is just like Kyrie, he likes to play hero ball. The reason Boston was so good in the 2018 playoffs is because they played team ball (no Kyrie). The only real difference might be that Kemba doesn't believe the earth is flat. Kyrie's teammates didn't hate him, they just thought he was weird. Kanter isn't even in the same universe as Horford. He does some things well but there's a reason Al just got 100 million at age 33 and why the Celtics are pissed about potential tampering. I'm not sure what player on their roster you think can help cover the loss of what Al did for that team.

    It seems like you favor teams that made moves and I guess I get that but how often does that really workout? I think it's interesting how fans are so driven by the ever shifting landscape of the NBA that they see a team keep itself intact and consider it a negative. Sometimes continuity is the best course when you are encouraged by the development of the team you already have in place.

  17. #854
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    Re: NBA 2019-2020 (I知 not your fwend buddy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    I think Kemba's going to work way better than Kyrie did because his teammates don't hate him and he'll increase the pace of play. Kanter's no Horford, but Boston's got a pile of young players all getting better to more than cover that difference in the aggregate.

    Why would you compare Horford to Butler? Completely different players. Though if you feel the need to do so, they had identical PERs.

    My general view is what matters most is how well a given team fits together. Can it attack/defend? Does it play with pace? Do the players complement each other? Does it have a bench? I like what a lot of the east did this summer.
    Your narrative might prove true, but the acquisitions in terms of pure talent do not match those that left.

    It's not close.

    Boston might be a better team without Horford and Irving, but Horford and Irving are far more talented than Walker and Kanter.

    Ditto Horford (the acquistion) and Jimmy Butler(the departure) in Philly. (Comparing PERs for a wing and a big? That's weak sauce and you know it, man.)

    Ditto each of those four top Eastern seeds.
    Last edited by Bourgeois Zee; 07-19-2019 at 01:10 PM.

  18. #855
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    Re: NBA 2019-2020 (I知 not your fwend buddy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rojo Rijo View Post
    You're talking about the same player who was upset he didn't get the last shot even after his teammate hit the game winner from like halfcourt. Kemba is just like Kyrie, he likes to play hero ball. The reason Boston was so good in the 2018 playoffs is because they played team ball (no Kyrie). The only real difference might be that Kemba doesn't believe the earth is flat. Kyrie's teammates didn't hate him, they just thought he was weird. Kanter isn't even in the same universe as Horford. He does some things well but there's a reason Al just got 100 million at age 33 and why the Celtics are pissed about potential tampering. I'm not sure what player on their roster you think can help cover the loss of what Al did for that team.

    It seems like you favor teams that made moves and I guess I get that but how often does that really workout? I think it's interesting how fans are so driven by the ever shifting landscape of the NBA that they see a team keep itself intact and consider it a negative. Sometimes continuity is the best course when you are encouraged by the development of the team you already have in place.
    What's been coming out here in Boston is they couldn't stand Kyrie. Like, burning hatred for the guy, Jaylen Brown in particular. Meanwhile, Kemba's getting pub like this - https://nesn.com/2019/07/kemba-walke...aron-harrison/. I think you're going to find Kemba, who was a true PG through college and his early years in the NBA, only played hero ball because he was on an awful team. He got tasked with carrying a team. And have you ever watched off-ball footage of Kemba? Guy works like a demon trying to shake defenders. I will be officially surprised if the story on Kemba becomes something other than it's really cool to see him on an actual basketball team.

    The Celtics are a running team that didn't run the past couple of seasons. This coming season they might finally weaponize their youth, at least that's what the local press is saying.

    I favor teams that have whole teams. Orlando doesn't. Teams with guards and wings are going to torment them. It's not that hard to gum up the paint. Milwaukee didn't make any big pickups. Still the nominal best team in the east. Denver's pretty similar to last season, might be best in the west.
    I'm not a system player. I am a system.


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