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Thread: Star Wars Rankings

  1. #16
    Bullpen or whatever RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Star Wars Rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by NebraskaRed View Post
    to that end, the influence of Phantom Menace (and maybe Attack of the Clones) seems to be popping up in the MCU lately. Look at the final battle in Black Panther. I can't be alone in seeing how much that battle borrows from the look of the Naboo battle in Phantom Menace.
    Yeah, that's a great point. Phantom and Attack have pretty stunning set design. Just so ambitious. The problem is that the stilted acting style was very hard for the young leads to pull off. That was also Lucas' intervention as a way to tip his hat to classic Hollywood acting -- but I think he made a mistake in thinking that Christensen and Portman could do it convincingly (though Natalie gave it a go).
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

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  3. #17
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Star Wars Rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    Yeah, that's a great point. Phantom and Attack have pretty stunning set design. Just so ambitious. The problem is that the stilted acting style was very hard for the young leads to pull off. That was also Lucas' intervention as a way to tip his hat to classic Hollywood acting -- but I think he made a mistake in thinking that Christensen and Portman could do it convincingly (though Natalie gave it a go).
    Can a movie have a stunning set design when there are not sets?
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  4. #18
    Bullpen or whatever RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Star Wars Rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by NebraskaRed View Post
    they used a puppet in The Last Jedi
    Did they use exclusively a puppet though? I felt like that scene with Luke in front of the burning temple didn't really work. At the end of the day, I don't care which they use, but I hate feeling like whatever I am seeing is artificial.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    Can a movie have a stunning set design when there are not sets?
    Good point. I should have said production design. Though there are SOME set elements, the innovation really has to do with the utter lack of normal sets.
    Last edited by RedEye; 06-24-2019 at 03:02 PM.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  5. #19
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    Re: Star Wars Rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    Yeah, that's a great point. Phantom and Attack have pretty stunning set design. Just so ambitious. The problem is that the stilted acting style was very hard for the young leads to pull off. That was also Lucas' intervention as a way to tip his hat to classic Hollywood acting -- but I think he made a mistake in thinking that Christensen and Portman could do it convincingly (though Natalie gave it a go).
    Phantom is 20 years old this year. I think it's safe to say that there are/will be a generation of filmmakers who grew up with the prequel trilogy, and that influence will be seen.

  6. #20
    Bullpen or whatever RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Star Wars Rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by NebraskaRed View Post
    Phantom is 20 years old this year. I think it's safe to say that there are/will be a generation of filmmakers who grew up with the prequel trilogy, and that influence will be seen.
    Yeah, for sure. But the reverence, to me, is unexpected. As an aging Gen-Xer, I have been a bit stunned by how much my millennial friends appreciate those movies. And my sons (9 and 4) always say that Phantom is the best, period.

    Anyway, I appreciate everyone having thoughts on my "split" rankings. SW films are hard for me to deal with objectively, since some are so close to my heart (the originals), some literally broke it (the prequels) and some have me giddy just because they replicate some of what I felt the first time around.

    Part of the challenge of valuing the prequels, in retrospect, also has to do with the way we think about transitional moments in history. They are undoubtedly some of the most important films for documenting what happened between the eras.
    Last edited by RedEye; 06-24-2019 at 03:08 PM.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  7. #21
    Winning the Human Race TheBigLebowski's Avatar
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    Re: Star Wars Rankings

    ROTJ
    Star Wars
    Empire
    Rogue One
    Revenge OTS
    TF Awakens
    Solo
    AOTC
    Phantom Menace
































    The Last Jedi
    I'm just going to go find a cash machine.

  8. #22
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: Star Wars Rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    One further point about Yoda -- after thinking about it a bit, I concede my oversight. There's an argument that later CGI meddling with the character by Lucasfilm and Disney have actually obscured the importance of that puppet to the history of the genre. I honestly think I forgot the importance of puppetry in light of the way that Yoda has lately become a purely CGI character.

    FWIW, lots of my friends who specialize in the history of effects cite Jurassic Park as the height of the puppetry/CGI partnership that really brought us the best overall effects.
    Jurassic Park was an amazing spectacle. Blew my mind when I first saw it. Still does.

    The triumph of the puppeteering / practical work with Yoda in Empire, though, is precisely because it was so small-scale and so character driven. The film had to get you to buy-in to a Muppet on a foggy soundstage as the Kung Fu guru of the film, spouting wisdom and training the young, headstrong apprentice. If it doesn't work, everything about the Dagobah scenes devolves instantly into unintentional comedy. Instead, they emerged with one of the most iconic character in film history that nobody thinks of as "the Fozzy Bear guy doing a voice." It's absolutely incredible work.

    Also: Hammil got a bum rap as an actor in those movies, but he carries so much weight in those portions of the film that it's criminal he wasn't more appreciated. Yoda works, in large part, because Hammil is emoting the hell out of every scene, even when he isn't saying a word. It's incredibly subtle, but impossible to not appreciate once you notice it. He's the only "actor" on screen for the majority of those scenes, and he absolutely nails every part of it.
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  9. #23
    Bullpen or whatever RedEye's Avatar
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    Star Wars Rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    The triumph of the puppeteering / practical work with Yoda in Empire, though, is precisely because it was so small-scale and so character driven. The film had to get you to buy-in to a Muppet on a foggy soundstage as the Kung Fu guru of the film, spouting wisdom and training the young, headstrong apprentice. If it doesn't work, everything about the Dagobah scenes devolves instantly into unintentional comedy. Instead, they emerged with one of the most iconic character in film history that nobody thinks of as "the Fozzy Bear guy doing a voice." It's absolutely incredible work.
    Yeah, you put it well. And itís most likely successful risk taking like this that gave George the confidence level to attempt the first completely CGI character years later.


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  10. #24
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Star Wars Rankings

    Do we really need to take up like 50 empty spaces of posts to show how angry you are about TLJ? We get it, it ruined your life or something.
    What would you say.....ya do here?

  11. #25
    Bullpen or whatever RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Star Wars Rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    Do we really need to take up like 50 empty spaces of posts to show how angry you are about TLJ? We get it, it ruined your life or something.
    Yes, to me the sheer hate of that film is confusing. I mean, I didn't absolutely love it, but I thought it was just fine. To hear my students talk about it though... you'd think its serious garbage. I don't see it.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  12. #26
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: Star Wars Rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    Do we really need to take up like 50 empty spaces of posts to show how angry you are about TLJ? We get it, it ruined your life or something.
    It can't be stated often or emphatically enough how trash that movie was.
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  14. #27
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    Re: Star Wars Rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    It can't be stated often or emphatically enough how trash that movie was.
    I understand how someone wouldn't like it. I loved it, but I get it.

    What I don't understand is how someone could rank it below something like Attack of the Clones. That's an almost entirely unwatchable movie. Poorly written, poorly acted, poorly directed. The Last Jedi, even if you don't like it, is well-made at least on a technical level.

  15. #28
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    Re: Star Wars Rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by NebraskaRed View Post
    I understand how someone wouldn't like it. I loved it, but I get it.

    What I don't understand is how someone could rank it below something like Attack of the Clones. That's an almost entirely unwatchable movie. Poorly written, poorly acted, poorly directed. The Last Jedi, even if you don't like it, is well-made at least on a technical level.
    It goes directly to the bottom because a character actually says "You can't solve all your problems by hopping in an X-Wing." And yes, this line is actually worse than Anakin's "I hate sand" monologue from Clones.

    I walked out of the theater questioning whether or not the filmmaker actually liked the franchise or not.
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  16. #29
    Bullpen or whatever RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Star Wars Rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    It can't be stated often or emphatically enough how trash that movie was.
    Well, agree to disagree I suppose. I thought it was perfectly fine, even interesting in a lot of places. Good world building, interesting new characters, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    It goes directly to the bottom because a character actually says "You can't solve all your problems by hopping in an X-Wing."
    See, I thought that was a cool way to question the basis of the franchise while also expanding it. This becomes a world with different points-of-view and conflicts of leadership. I thought that was great.

    Where I side with the haters has more to do with the premature demise of Snoke... that was disappointing and a failure to take advantage of what the previous film built up. I mean, I at least wanted to see the dude get out of his chair!
    Last edited by RedEye; 06-24-2019 at 03:34 PM.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  17. #30
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Star Wars Rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    It goes directly to the bottom because a character actually says "You can't solve all your problems by hopping in an X-Wing." And yes, this line is actually worse than Anakin's "I hate sand" monologue from Clones.

    I walked out of the theater questioning whether or not the filmmaker actually liked the franchise or not.
    If you actually believe that is worse than the sand line then you are showing you can’t talk about TLJ objectively.
    What would you say.....ya do here?


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