Turn Off Ads?
Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 94

Thread: USMNT...I believe that we will qualify!

  1. #61
    Member Red Heeler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Knoxville, TN
    Posts
    1,693

    Re: USMNT...I believe that we will qualify!

    I donít think that anyone coming up at this time feels like the pathway to professional soccer goes through the high school to college route as the primary route. I would recommend the Scuffed and Top Drawer Soccer podcasts to anyone wanting to learn more about the youth development.

    The argument that we donít have our best athletes playing soccer doesnít really hold much water. Sure, the larger pool of players to pick from, the better the odds of getting good players. However, beyond a basic level of athleticism necessary to play the pro game, being a world class player is far more about skill, vision, and creativity. Iím 47 years old, and I could still match David Beckham from his ManU days in a 40 yard dash.

    The US currently is relying on too many blunt instruments like Morris and Arriola. Theyíre fine for depth options, but your not going to go very far in the World Cup it theyíre on the squad. Luckily, it appears that better options are on the cusp of breaking through.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  2. Likes:

    M2 (08-11-2019),Yachtzee (08-11-2019)

  3. Turn Off Ads?
  4. #62
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The 513
    Posts
    13,499

    Re: USMNT...I believe that we will qualify!

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Heeler View Post
    The argument that we don’t have our best athletes playing soccer doesn’t really hold much water. Sure, the larger pool of players to pick from, the better the odds of getting good players. However, beyond a basic level of athleticism necessary to play the pro game, being a world class player is far more about skill, vision, and creativity. I’m 47 years old, and I could still match David Beckham from his ManU days in a 40 yard dash.
    When it comes to the kind of "generational talents" and world class players that the US has been missing, it's all about the larger player pool and having more people who grow up with the game as opposed to finding it later / playing it as a second option.

    Not only because it simply increases your odds of finding that player, but also because iron sharpens iron in the sport. One of the best ways to continue developing is to constantly be placed in the crucible of competition and forced to improve or lose your spot. In the US, the story far too often is people handed their place or becoming comfortable in their place because of lack of competition (or, in the case of MLS, a finite resource pool to pay players). Increase the player pool, you increase that competition as well.
    Cincinnati Here We Go.
    29 Years and Counting...

  5. #63
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Posts
    12,526

    Re: USMNT...I believe that we will qualify!

    I think itís kind of silly that we canít just admit if all of the running backs, defensive backs, wide receivers, linebackers, point guards, shooting guards, etc in the country played soccer instead of football and basketball we would have an elite USMNT. Come on.
    What would you say.....ya do here?

  6. #64
    Are we not men? Yachtzee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    The Rubber City
    Posts
    7,376

    Re: USMNT...I believe that we will qualify!

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    I think it’s kind of silly that we can’t just admit if all of the running backs, defensive backs, wide receivers, linebackers, point guards, shooting guards, etc in the country played soccer instead of football and basketball we would have an elite USMNT. Come on.
    And if all those running backs, defensive backs, wide receivers, linebackers, point guards, shooting guards, etc. came up through the current high school/college oriented US development system, we'd have a crapton more soccer players who either stall in their development or don't start playing worth a crap until their mid-20s. Meanwhile, countries with less people in their whole country than we have currently in our youth soccer system can turn out World Class soccer players because they have a development system in place in which players are identified as children and trained in professional academies with professional coaching staffs. If you implanted the structure of the Royal Dutch Football Association in the State of Ohio, there's a good chance Ohio by itself would be a contender for the World Cup. Athleticism does not equal "great soccer player" and the soccer players we do turn out already tend to be great athletes. But that means little without the training infrastructure that pushes players to seek their level with the help of professional trainers whose goal is to develop professional players rather than get kids free college through a scholarship.

    Great athletes don't automatically become great soccer players just by playing more soccer, and there are plenty of World-Class soccer players who aren't exactly the best pure athletes on the field. So assuming that we'd win a World Cup if only our "best athletes" played soccer is what's silly.
    Wear gaudy colors, or avoid display. Lay a million eggs or give birth to one. The fittest shall survive, yet the unfit may live. Be like your ancestors or be different. We must repeat!

  7. Likes:

    M2 (08-14-2019)

  8. #65
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    7,700

    Re: USMNT...I believe that we will qualify!

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    I think it’s kind of silly that we can’t just admit if all of the running backs, defensive backs, wide receivers, linebackers, point guards, shooting guards, etc in the country played soccer instead of football and basketball we would have an elite USMNT. Come on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yachtzee View Post
    And if all those running backs, defensive backs, wide receivers, linebackers, point guards, shooting guards, etc. came up through the current high school/college oriented US development system, we'd have a crapton more soccer players who either stall in their development or don't start playing worth a crap until their mid-20s. Meanwhile, countries with less people in their whole country than we have currently in our youth soccer system can turn out World Class soccer players because they have a development system in place in which players are identified as children and trained in professional academies with professional coaching staffs. If you implanted the structure of the Royal Dutch Football Association in the State of Ohio, there's a good chance Ohio by itself would be a contender for the World Cup. Athleticism does not equal "great soccer player" and the soccer players we do turn out already tend to be great athletes. But that means little without the training infrastructure that pushes players to seek their level with the help of professional trainers whose goal is to develop professional players rather than get kids free college through a scholarship.

    Great athletes don't automatically become great soccer players just by playing more soccer, and there are plenty of World-Class soccer players who aren't exactly the best pure athletes on the field. So assuming that we'd win a World Cup if only our "best athletes" played soccer is what's silly.
    While I generally dislike the premise for this argument, I've found the discussion in this case to be fairly interesting.
    I think there's some truth to both sides that obviously right now the US program is failing compared to the rest of the world by both metrics. 1) The US doesn't necessarily get the top athletes into soccer in any proportion compared to other countries and 2)the US development system fails due to poor coaching, poor training, and poor identification of the top players until it's too late.

    There's obviously no way to definitively prove either of these factors to be the primary concern, but it got me thinking about a comparison between soccer and basketball. I'd say many of the same development problems in US Soccer also exist in basketball. At least up through the teenage years.
    However the US is (almost) always the runaway favorite for gold in basketball.
    Is it worth pondering why the development issues condemns the US to second tier status in soccer, but poses no such issue to men's basketball?
    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRed27 View Post
    Honest I can't say it any better than Hoosier Red did in his post, he sums it up basically perfectly.

  9. #66
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    3,350

    Re: USMNT...I believe that we will qualify!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    However the US is (almost) always the runaway favorite for gold in basketball.
    Is it worth pondering why the development issues condemns the US to second tier status in soccer, but poses no such issue to men's basketball?
    The National Basketball Association was founded in 1946. There's been multiple generations to grow up dreaming to be Pistol Pete, The Logo, Michael Jordan, Kareem. That's a big advantage baseball, football, and basketball have always had.

    You're seeing it with Women's Soccer now, many of the women getting into grew up watching Michelle Akers, Brianna Scurry, Brandi Chastain, and Mia Hamm. That led to the group of the likes of Abby Wambach, Carli Lloyd, and that group handed off to this current core that just won the Women's World Cup. They don't have any major competition for best athletes as there really isn't that one or two heads and shoulders above the rest. It's a step uphill climb but soccer is growing but it will never be A#1, King of the Hill in the US like it is in the rest of the world.
    Quote Originally Posted by teamselig
    The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change, the realist adjusts the sails.

    William Arthur Ward


  10. #67
    Are we not men? Yachtzee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    The Rubber City
    Posts
    7,376

    Re: USMNT...I believe that we will qualify!

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyder View Post
    The National Basketball Association was founded in 1946. There's been multiple generations to grow up dreaming to be Pistol Pete, The Logo, Michael Jordan, Kareem. That's a big advantage baseball, football, and basketball have always had.

    You're seeing it with Women's Soccer now, many of the women getting into grew up watching Michelle Akers, Brianna Scurry, Brandi Chastain, and Mia Hamm. That led to the group of the likes of Abby Wambach, Carli Lloyd, and that group handed off to this current core that just won the Women's World Cup. They don't have any major competition for best athletes as there really isn't that one or two heads and shoulders above the rest. It's a step uphill climb but soccer is growing but it will never be A#1, King of the Hill in the US like it is in the rest of the world.

    I wonder how long the USWNT will be able to maintain its superiority. The US has had a clear advantage in Women's Soccer for a long time because Title IX provided opportunities for women to play college soccer at a time when women weren't really playing soccer in other countries in large numbers. Now we're starting to see women's professional clubs in other countries, often affiliated with professional men's clubs, and those clubs are developing professional academies. Meanwhile, our NWSL is funded primarily by US Soccer with a two-tiered salary system where USWNT players are paid salaries from US Soccer while the rest of the players are paid low salaries by their NWSL team (Not too unlike what happens in MLS). But our development system still relies on the high school/college development system, same as for the men. So I'm curious to see if the US can maintain their advantage through Title XI, or if the women in other countries will catch up and surpass us through their use of professional academies and support from existing professional clubs with a long institutional memory and expertise.

    Edit: On a side note, if other countries do end up surpassing the USWNT, I would say it could be possible that the success of the USWNT could possibly be their undoing, in that they've shown the World that people will tune in to watch Women's soccer, which in turn means there's money to be found in women's soccer, which in turn has encouraged the growth of women's professional clubs in other countries.
    Last edited by Yachtzee; 08-17-2019 at 11:58 AM.
    Wear gaudy colors, or avoid display. Lay a million eggs or give birth to one. The fittest shall survive, yet the unfit may live. Be like your ancestors or be different. We must repeat!

  11. Likes:

    M2 (08-17-2019)

  12. #68
    Member North's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Reading is fundamental.
    Posts
    212

    Re: USMNT...I believe that we will qualify!

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post

    I wonder if the MLS is both a blessing and a curse for the USMNT. Its a blessing in that it creates buzz in the US for soccer, it creates a playing field for a bunch of players to come up through. But it is also a place where you can make a decent pay day instead of really pushing yourself against better competition. You can succeed in the MLS, or you could push yourself overseas. Often the worst thing for a rising soccer star is to spend his early and mid 20's in the MLS.
    For good or bad, you have nailed it.
    I am just a poor boy though my story's seldom told.

  13. #69
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Posts
    12,080

    Re: USMNT...I believe that we will qualify!

    Quote Originally Posted by Yachtzee View Post
    I wonder how long the USWNT will be able to maintain its superiority. The US has had a clear advantage in Women's Soccer for a long time because Title IX provided opportunities for women to play college soccer at a time when women weren't really playing soccer in other countries in large numbers. Now we're starting to see women's professional clubs in other countries, often affiliated with professional men's clubs, and those clubs are developing professional academies. Meanwhile, our NWSL is funded primarily by US Soccer with a two-tiered salary system where USWNT players are paid salaries from US Soccer while the rest of the players are paid low salaries by their NWSL team (Not too unlike what happens in MLS). But our development system still relies on the high school/college development system, same as for the men. So I'm curious to see if the US can maintain their advantage through Title XI, or if the women in other countries will catch up and surpass us through their use of professional academies and support from existing professional clubs with a long institutional memory and expertise.

    Edit: On a side note, if other countries do end up surpassing the USWNT, I would say it could be possible that the success of the USWNT could possibly be their undoing, in that they've shown the World that people will tune in to watch Women's soccer, which in turn means there's money to be found in women's soccer, which in turn has encouraged the growth of women's professional clubs in other countries.
    I was actually thinking about this the other day. I was curious to see the staying power that Women's Soccer would have in this country. We are what, a couple of months after the WC finals and I just don't know if the game itself is more popular. I think some of the players still have the attention of the nation, but I just don't think the game itself is anything but an afterthought in the American sports scene.

    I guess in saying that, I think Women's Soccer at the professional level will always need a subsidy for lack of a better term. I don't think a league can stand on its own without some support from a club or association.

  14. #70
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    7,700

    Re: USMNT...I believe that we will qualify!

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyder View Post
    The National Basketball Association was founded in 1946. There's been multiple generations to grow up dreaming to be Pistol Pete, The Logo, Michael Jordan, Kareem. That's a big advantage baseball, football, and basketball have always had.

    You're seeing it with Women's Soccer now, many of the women getting into grew up watching Michelle Akers, Brianna Scurry, Brandi Chastain, and Mia Hamm. That led to the group of the likes of Abby Wambach, Carli Lloyd, and that group handed off to this current core that just won the Women's World Cup. They don't have any major competition for best athletes as there really isn't that one or two heads and shoulders above the rest. It's a step uphill climb but soccer is growing but it will never be A#1, King of the Hill in the US like it is in the rest of the world.
    I definitely agree with that. But I'm not sure if that pushes me towards a "better coaching system at youth levels" or "better share of the elite athletes" as the driving factor in what ails the US.
    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRed27 View Post
    Honest I can't say it any better than Hoosier Red did in his post, he sums it up basically perfectly.

  15. #71
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Posts
    1

    Re: USMNT...I believe that we will qualify!

    Quote Originally Posted by Yachtzee View Post
    But our development system still relies on the high school/college development system, same as for the men. So I'm curious to see if the US can maintain their advantage through Title XI, or if the women in other countries will catch up and surpass us through their use of professional academies and support from existing professional clubs with a long institutional memory and expertise.
    The US development system relies on club soccer, it does not rely on HS at all really because the competition there is too diluted. College recruitment is directly through club soccer, I doubt they pay attention to HS games/highlights at all.

    Some of the challenges the US develop system has to overcome:
    - Club soccer is quite expensive and time consuming, especially the top tier clubs that travel all over the country. Because of that it isn't really an option for a large percentage of kids.
    - Because club soccer is a money maker, at least in some areas, there are way too many clubs. Meaning the top tier talent is mixed in with non-top tier talent which dilutes the competition across the board.
    - Too much parental involvement. Parents that think their kid is the next Ronaldo, Messi or Alex Morgan and jump clubs when their kid is not placed on the very top team.
    - Coaching at the rec level in the US (the entry point for the youngest players) is typically very poor. It is mostly volunteer moms/dads that never even played soccer. Most places don't require any sort of certification to coach at that level. It's not much better at the local travel level. In other countries, the population grew up playing soccer, so any parental instruction at least has some sort of experience behind it.
    - Pickup soccer is practically non-existent. Foot skills and improvisation has to be taught through drills and coaching rather than developed informally through natural play.
    - Because the US is so large, congregating the top talent is a challenge.
    - There are regional development programs in place, but they are a bit of a joke. Some club teams won't allow their players to participate and other club teams practically run the programs.
    - And finally, as mentioned, soccer is not the first choice for many kids - especially boys.

  16. Likes:

    BuckeyeRed27 (08-20-2019)

  17. #72
    Member Red Heeler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Knoxville, TN
    Posts
    1,693

    Re: USMNT...I believe that we will qualify!

    Burkhalter doesnít appear to be the man to lead the USMNT out of the wilderness. Heís trying to jam square pegs into round holes without any inclination to try a different peg.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  18. #73
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    38,621

    Re: USMNT...I believe that we will qualify!

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Heeler View Post
    Burkhalter doesn’t appear to be the man to lead the USMNT out of the wilderness. He’s trying to jam square pegs into round holes without any inclination to try a different peg.
    I think it's a combination of him not being up to coaching at this level and the talent pool of guys in their mid-20s is truly awful. Like, the U.S. doesn't have a left back or holding midfielders or defenders who can play the ball out of the back.
    Friends don't let friends fWAR.

    Coddle thy pitchers.

  19. #74
    Are we not men? Yachtzee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    The Rubber City
    Posts
    7,376

    Re: USMNT...I believe that we will qualify!

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    I think it's a combination of him not being up to coaching at this level and the talent pool of guys in their mid-20s is truly awful. Like, the U.S. doesn't have a left back or holding midfielders or defenders who can play the ball out of the back.
    Berhalter is playing a game that doesn't match his personnel. The USMNT has plenty of players who have the talents and skills to outrun guys and beat them one on one. They're fast, athletic, and we have some players who can dribble three for four guys to create space. But what we don't have is players (beyond Pulisic) who have the precision passing skills that can open an team up. Bradley is old and slow in the midfield and just really bogs things down. Other players have problems hitting passes to players making a run, which slows them down and lets the defense reset. And we have guys like Zardes running out there who just don't have a good first touch.

    The problem is that he's trying to play out of the back with a possession game without having players that have 1) the precision passing skills, and 2) the fine-tuned touch that can pull it off. He did the same thing with the Columbus Crew. The key to that kind of system is having a precision passer who can move the ball quickly through the midfield to open up the defense. Of course the problem that he has is that the lynchpin, in the case with the USMNT, is Michael Bradley, who plays too slowly and doesn't get off his passes sharply enough. With the Crew, he had Federico Higuain, who I feel is a better passer than Bradley, but with age has really slowed down to the point where the defense is allowed to get set before he can thread the ball through to the next level. Therefore, the easy counter to that system is to gegenpress up the field and force mistakes. MLS teams did it to Berhalter with the Crew and Canada did it to the USMNT. Press and force mistakes.

    Ironically, I think the USMNT would probably do better playing the opposite of what their doing. I feel like they should concede possession, press high, and hit quick on the counter. The US has the athletes, but lacks the fine-tuned precision to pull off what Berhalter is trying to play.
    Last edited by Yachtzee; 10-17-2019 at 12:23 AM.
    Wear gaudy colors, or avoid display. Lay a million eggs or give birth to one. The fittest shall survive, yet the unfit may live. Be like your ancestors or be different. We must repeat!

  20. Likes:

    IslandRed (10-17-2019)

  21. #75
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    38,621

    Re: USMNT...I believe that we will qualify!

    I agree with having them play direct off the counter. Yet it's an indictment of our entire system that in 2019 the best we can do is run hard.
    Friends don't let friends fWAR.

    Coddle thy pitchers.

  22. Likes:

    IslandRed (10-17-2019)


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | cumberlandreds | Gallen5862 | Plus Plus | Powel Crosley | RedlegJake | The Operator