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Thread: Jameson VS. Trammell

  1. #16
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Jameson VS. Trammell

    Here's a question I have about Hannah, how fast is he? He's considered a legit CF, but he doesn't do a lot on the basepaths. I generally go by the rule that truly fast players can swipe bases even if they're not gifted at working a lead or timing their jump. It's a math thing.
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  3. #17
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    Re: Jameson VS. Trammell

    Quote Originally Posted by WrongVerb View Post
    Ceiling for Trammell is Carl Crawford or Curtis Granderson.

    Ceiling for Hannah is Coco Crisp or Scott Posednick.

    Trammell has a better opportunity to reach his ceiling, too.
    Crawford is the name thrown out the most for Trammell. And it's worth noting he didn't exactly set the world on fire in AA (675 OPS), albeit he was a year younger at that level than Trammell.

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    Re: Jameson VS. Trammell

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Here's a question I have about Hannah, how fast is he? He's considered a legit CF, but he doesn't do a lot on the basepaths. I generally go by the rule that truly fast players can swipe bases even if they're not gifted at working a lead or timing their jump. It's a math thing.
    He played in the A’s organization, don’t they preach station to station baseball?
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    Re: Jameson VS. Trammell

    The sour grapes stuff on Trammell is wild around here. I realize some have soured on him earlier this year, but get out of here if you think Hannah and Trammell are even in the same prospect ballpark.

    First, prospect growth is rarely linear. Trammell hasn't played baseball like anyone would have liked this year, but this doesn't mean he can't bounce back. Lots of prospects stumble and adjust, especially when taking a big jump like Trammell did this year. Y'all act like one down year from a 21-year-old (while 2.7 years younger than the league) precludes him tearing the cover off the baseball next year.

    Second, Trammell has elite athleticism. The combination of size, speed and strength is a large part of Trammell's prospect appeal. Lots of athletic guys never put it together, and that may well be the case for Trammell. But if he does figure it out (and remember he's also an elite make-up guy), the ceiling is massive.

    Hannah may very well turn out to be the better player, but despite Trammell's struggles this year, he's a way better prospect.

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    Re: Jameson VS. Trammell

    Quote Originally Posted by RedlegJake View Post
    TT wasn't a true Cf candidate - the arm was weak, not even average. Room to develop power but so far not showing it. Hannah, OTOH, is a true CF prospect but is smaller with less room for power growth - however he does show gap power already. Bottomline I like the swap considering it nets a year of Bauer and gives the Reds a CF possibility. I think Hannah's ML possibilities are better than an average prospect remembering that except for a handful of true top prospects all prospects (including TT) are long shots.
    My guess is that this was the Reds' thinking. TT was not a CF'er. He was not showing the power you would expect for LF. He didn't really profile well even though his tools are louder. Hannah, on the other hand, profiles as a CF'er, a position harder to fill. From some of the quotes posted, Hannah seems likely to have some future power. I think the Reds knew that they could get Hannah when they included Trammell in a trade.

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    Re: Jameson VS. Trammell

    NM
    Last edited by BillDoran; 08-03-2019 at 10:02 PM.

  9. #22
    Someday Never Comes mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Jameson VS. Trammell

    I think the Reds were simply fixated on Bauer and paid what it took. I don't think it had anything to do with souring on Trammell or any of that.

    We'll see how it goes. If they go all in on 2020, I'm OK with it. If this is the big acquisition and we line up with minor leaguers who had fallen out of favor a year ago manning multiple spots, it was a terrible deal. The Reds worked with these guys (Aquino, VanMeter) and have seen some results. I hope they haven't deluded themselves that they've "fixed" them. There may very well be a lot of improvement there, but there is simply nothing these guys can do the rest of the season that would get me to hand them a starting spot in 2020. They may make good trade pieces or guys who start out on the bench and finally just force their way in George Foster style, but they can't do that in August and September of 2019 when the Reds are clearly going for it in 2020.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

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    Re: Jameson VS. Trammell

    You know, there's just something about players who can get on base often that makes me like them as opposed to players who hit for power, but don't get on base often. It's kind of tough to score runs from the dugout after striking out. I suppose it can be done, but I've never personally witnessed it.

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    Middle Class Rut TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Jameson VS. Trammell

    Bauer is a difference maker, legit #1 SP Cy Young contender. And if he really gets over the first game where he was clearly pressing, and pitches like he usually does, the sky is the limit on the return the Reds can get for him in the off season, where his trade value will be it's highest, or in the fact that he's the co- ace with Castillo, and one could argue Gray.

    I wanted the Reds to get him in ST. I think most of us did.

    Trammell to me was that top prospect that I always wondered why he was a top prospect. He's a CF with no arm for CF, a power hitter still looking for his power. Tools he has, but even then, some tools seem to be missing. Memorable performances under bright lights that drew attention. His new home park is a hitter's haven. I hope for his sake, he takes advantage of it. HIs next stop will be El Paso in the PCL. If TT doesn't display the power soon, it's because it was never there.

    The difference between TT and Siri at AA this year was Siri had a better hit tool, and better power. Siri is a true CF. Both have about the same speed on the bases it seems. Siri is probably a 4th OF in the making... a new Phillip Ervin if you will. TT was/is supposed to be something else.

    Still worth it for Bauer.
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    Re: Jameson VS. Trammell

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I think the Reds were simply fixated on Bauer and paid what it took. I don't think it had anything to do with souring on Trammell or any of that.

    We'll see how it goes. If they go all in on 2020, I'm OK with it. If this is the big acquisition and we line up with minor leaguers who had fallen out of favor a year ago manning multiple spots, it was a terrible deal. The Reds worked with these guys (Aquino, VanMeter) and have seen some results. I hope they haven't deluded themselves that they've "fixed" them. There may very well be a lot of improvement there, but there is simply nothing these guys can do the rest of the season that would get me to hand them a starting spot in 2020. They may make good trade pieces or guys who start out on the bench and finally just force their way in George Foster style, but they can't do that in August and September of 2019 when the Reds are clearly going for it in 2020.
    That homer Aquino hit off Kuechel doesn't really count because it happened in August.
    The lowest acceptable payroll amount for ownership to show they are not greedy pigs is 15 million more than they are currently paying. No matter what that currently is.

  15. #26
    Someday Never Comes mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Jameson VS. Trammell

    Quote Originally Posted by JaxRed View Post
    That homer Aquino hit off Kuechel doesn't really count because it happened in August.
    It counts just like the 1.000 OPS that we've seen in seasons past from guys like Jon Nunnally, Kris Negron and Chris Dickerson. Those guys were alright (Negron is contributing to the Dodgers right now) and may be worth keeping around. One may actually be a star in hiding who reclaims his baseball future the way George Foster or dare I day Scooter Gennett did. The question isn't whether that Home Run counts. It's whether it means we should expect a guy who they outrighted last year to be a mainstay in the middle of the batting order next season. There is lots of evidence that late season production means absolutely nothing about the future performance of said player.

    The thing is, if I'm trading my top prospect for a major arm with the idea of a one season window, I don't risk that window by handing multiple starting spots to guys who might be the next Jon Nunnally. The same is true of trying to sure up a weak pen with question marks like Reed, Stephenson and Sims. They all may end up being studs. Absolutely could happen. I'm hoping so, but I don't risk my 2020 window on it. They are either in for 2020 or this was a bad trade.
    Last edited by mth123; 08-05-2019 at 11:00 PM.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

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    Re: Jameson VS. Trammell

    Quote Originally Posted by BillDoran View Post
    The sour grapes stuff on Trammell is wild around here. I realize some have soured on him earlier this year, but get out of here if you think Hannah and Trammell are even in the same prospect ballpark.

    First, prospect growth is rarely linear. Trammell hasn't played baseball like anyone would have liked this year, but this doesn't mean he can't bounce back. Lots of prospects stumble and adjust, especially when taking a big jump like Trammell did this year. Y'all act like one down year from a 21-year-old (while 2.7 years younger than the league) precludes him tearing the cover off the baseball next year.

    Second, Trammell has elite athleticism. The combination of size, speed and strength is a large part of Trammell's prospect appeal. Lots of athletic guys never put it together, and that may well be the case for Trammell. But if he does figure it out (and remember he's also an elite make-up guy), the ceiling is massive.

    Hannah may very well turn out to be the better player, but despite Trammell's struggles this year, he's a way better prospect.
    Yeah, it's amazing how quickly RZ turned on TT. He is an excellent prospect and I think we're going to regret losing him.

    Hannah is fungible. MiL depth. Probably projects to a AAAA OF.
    I'm just going to go find a cash machine.

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  19. #28
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Jameson VS. Trammell

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBigLebowski View Post
    Yeah, it's amazing how quickly RZ turned on TT. He is an excellent prospect and I think we're going to regret losing him.

    Hannah is fungible. MiL depth. Probably projects to a AAAA OF.
    I think TT still could have himself a solid career, but excellent prospects generally don't struggle the way he has this season.
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    Re: Jameson VS. Trammell

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    I think TT still could have himself a solid career, but excellent prospects generally don't struggle the way he has this season.
    I don't have the statistical ammo to buttress my point, but I'll toss it out there anyway:

    You're a butthole.
    I'm just going to go find a cash machine.

  22. #30
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Jameson VS. Trammell

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBigLebowski View Post
    Yeah, it's amazing how quickly RZ turned on TT. He is an excellent prospect and I think we're going to regret losing him.

    Hannah is fungible. MiL depth. Probably projects to a AAAA OF.
    I really don’t get the hype surrounding TT. He wasn’t a top 100 guy and then suddenly he shot up boards last year. Now he hits AA and failed pretty hard over nearly 400 plate appearances. Folks around here are acting like it was a couple of weeks worth of data. I also think it was more alarming that he never adjusted this year. He started out kinda ok and then just slowly got worse and worse and worse. Seems to me an elite hitting prospect would do the opposite and get better over the the course of the year.
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