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Thread: Time to blow it up!

  1. #76
    Member Mitri's Avatar
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    Re: Time to blow it up!

    Let's just be fair, Ervin and Winker have pretty much been 4th OFs so far in their careers once you factor in baserunning and defense. They make an okay platoon team in LF, but even combined that is just an "eh" result. Assuming either is due for a some breakout is probably foolish at this point. I think Winker will put together a few really good seasons with the bat, if he can stay healthy, but he gives a lot away on the field and if a team is willing to give up a useful CF, 2B or a great reliever he may be worth moving.

    I would go hard for one of Ozuna or Castellanos (I prefer the latter) AND make a play at Adam Eaton (moving Senzel back to the infield) as well. If they could land one or two of those three it would really help the offense, pushing one of Ervin/Winker to the 4th man (the other being traded) and VanMeter into a super-sub role.

    Senzel's flexibility along with Winker's potential value on the trade marker make room for a number of different ways to go about this. But I do believe the Reds should be using a good portion of their cash on a legitimate OF upgrade.

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  4. #77
    Knowledge Is Good Big Klu's Avatar
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    Re: Time to blow it up!

    Quote Originally Posted by CaiGuy View Post
    Ervin and Winker actually look like a platoon match-made-in-heaven.

    I think that combo would give the team some serious offense from LF.
    John Lowenstein and Gary Roenicke.
    Eric Stratton, Rush Chairman. Damn glad to meet ya.

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  6. #78
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Time to blow it up!

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Yet, other than Wood, theyíve been very lucky on the health front. Maybe they were unlucky or maybe they had a really bad bullpen.
    Yes, although in all fairness, I want to mention the Scooter injury too.
    Very good year for health.
    For example: Disco was healthy again, which was a pleasant surprise.
    Other than a brief rest that Garrett and Hernandez needed, I think everyone in the bullpen was at least officially "healthy" all year.
    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  7. #79
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Time to blow it up!

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Scooter? Winker? Senzel?
    .
    I agree that Scooter was an impact.
    Winker and Senzel were below average players this year, they really were not an impact loss. I am not saying they will always be below average players, but they were this year. Unless we want to say that maybe they were playing hurt and that hurt their numbers (possible, but I don't know). Basically, the replacements for Senzel and Winker were not much of a drop off.
    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  8. #80
    Marty Moose!! maniem's Avatar
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    Re: Time to blow it up!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitri View Post
    Let's just be fair, Ervin and Winker have pretty much been 4th OFs so far in their careers once you factor in baserunning and defense. They make an okay platoon team in LF, but even combined that is just an "eh" result. Assuming either is due for a some breakout is probably foolish at this point. I think Winker will put together a few really good seasons with the bat, if he can stay healthy, but he gives a lot away on the field and if a team is willing to give up a useful CF, 2B or a great reliever he may be worth moving.

    I would go hard for one of Ozuna or Castellanos (I prefer the latter) AND make a play at Adam Eaton (moving Senzel back to the infield) as well. If they could land one or two of those three it would really help the offense, pushing one of Ervin/Winker to the 4th man (the other being traded) and VanMeter into a super-sub role.

    Senzel's flexibility along with Winker's potential value on the trade marker make room for a number of different ways to go about this. But I do believe the Reds should be using a good portion of their cash on a legitimate OF upgrade.
    Agreed on Eaton, solid hitter, good OBP, solid defense. Looks like he is a free agent this winter, but not sure if Nats hold a team option. If not, he might be intrigued to play for his hometown team. 3/$35 mill deal might get him. Stick him in CF and leadoff, move Senzel back to 2b. Then, try signing Grandal:

    Eaton - CF
    Votto - 1B
    Suarez - 3B
    Aquino - RF
    Grandal - C
    Winker - LF
    Senzel - 2B
    Galvis - SS


    Bench: Ervin, VanMeter, Farmer, Barnhart, Iglesias??

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  10. #81
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Time to blow it up!

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Winker's defense also remains an advanced stat catastrophe. If you want to argue he wouldn't be completely terrible if confined solely to LF, there's a case for that. Yet if Winker were an MC, his name would be Young DH.
    Winker actually got better this year at D. His B-R defensive WAR rating is -.8. Not good, but not terrible. I don't think its out of the idea that he becomes a replacement level fielder. His bat plays but he has been injured lately. Are his injuries predictive or just bad luck?

  11. #82
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Time to blow it up!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitri View Post
    Let's just be fair, Ervin and Winker have pretty much been 4th OFs so far in their careers once you factor in baserunning and defense. They make an okay platoon team in LF, but even combined that is just an "eh" result. Assuming either is due for a some breakout is probably foolish at this point. I think Winker will put together a few really good seasons with the bat, if he can stay healthy, but he gives a lot away on the field and if a team is willing to give up a useful CF, 2B or a great reliever he may be worth moving.
    That's my general thinking too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitri View Post
    I would go hard for one of Ozuna or Castellanos (I prefer the latter) AND make a play at Adam Eaton (moving Senzel back to the infield) as well. If they could land one or two of those three it would really help the offense, pushing one of Ervin/Winker to the 4th man (the other being traded) and VanMeter into a super-sub role.

    Senzel's flexibility along with Winker's potential value on the trade marker make room for a number of different ways to go about this. But I do believe the Reds should be using a good portion of their cash on a legitimate OF upgrade.
    I'd go after a quality defensive CF. It frees up Senzel to shift to a position where he can have plus defensive value and gives the team some balance. Obviously, we'd all like a new Eric Davis, but I'd take a guy with a versatile if average offensive game if the glove game was there. Who that is, I've got no idea.
    Friends don't let friends fWAR.

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  13. #83
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Time to blow it up!

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Winker actually got better this year at D. His B-R defensive WAR rating is -.8. Not good, but not terrible. I don't think its out of the idea that he becomes a replacement level fielder. His bat plays but he has been injured lately. Are his injuries predictive or just bad luck?
    That's the argument for him - keep him in LF and maybe he plays survivable defense. I can see giving it another shot before he hits arbitration. Yet I can also see moving him as a cheap asset and getting something you like better in return.
    Friends don't let friends fWAR.

    Coddle thy pitchers.

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  15. #84
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    Re: Time to blow it up!

    Quote Originally Posted by maniem View Post
    Agreed on Eaton, solid hitter, good OBP, solid defense. Looks like he is a free agent this winter, but not sure if Nats hold a team option. If not, he might be intrigued to play for his hometown team. 3/$35 mill deal might get him. Stick him in CF and leadoff, move Senzel back to 2b. Then, try signing Grandal:

    Eaton - CF
    Votto - 1B
    Suarez - 3B
    Aquino - RF
    Grandal - C
    Winker - LF
    Senzel - 2B
    Galvis - SS
    Love that idea. But Nats have a team option for 20 and 21. Doubt they'd let him go unless they need the money to try to keep Rendon or Stras?

  16. #85
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    Re: Time to blow it up!

    Quote Originally Posted by maniem View Post
    Agreed on Eaton, solid hitter, good OBP, solid defense. Looks like he is a free agent this winter, but not sure if Nats hold a team option. If not, he might be intrigued to play for his hometown team. 3/$35 mill deal might get him. Stick him in CF and leadoff, move Senzel back to 2b. Then, try signing Grandal:

    Eaton - CF
    Votto - 1B
    Suarez - 3B
    Aquino - RF
    Grandal - C
    Winker - LF
    Senzel - 2B
    Galvis - SS


    Bench: Ervin, VanMeter, Farmer, Barnhart, Iglesias??
    This is a plan that would have impact.

    Don’t think Iglesias at backup short would work out, not sure achievable, but like the plan.
    Last edited by Kc61; 09-11-2019 at 03:15 PM.

  17. #86
    Member Kinsm's Avatar
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    Re: Time to blow it up!

    Quote Originally Posted by maniem View Post
    Agreed on Eaton, solid hitter, good OBP, solid defense. Looks like he is a free agent this winter, but not sure if Nats hold a team option. If not, he might be intrigued to play for his hometown team. 3/$35 mill deal might get him. Stick him in CF and leadoff, move Senzel back to 2b. Then, try signing Grandal:

    Eaton - CF
    Votto - 1B
    Suarez - 3B
    Aquino - RF
    Grandal - C
    Winker - LF
    Senzel - 2B
    Galvis - SS


    Bench: Ervin, VanMeter, Farmer, Barnhart, Iglesias??
    Adam Eaton is not going to be a FA.

  18. #87
    Marty Moose!! maniem's Avatar
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    Re: Time to blow it up!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinsm View Post
    Adam Eaton is not going to be a FA.
    Looks like there is a team option for '20 and '21, which i'm not exactly sure how that works. His current deal is a steal for the Nats - 5/21 mil that i thought expires at the end of the year. If the team option is still a low salary, can he opt out for a better deal? Or do the Nats have complete control of him for 2 more years? If the latter, then you're right, doubtful they'll let him out of that contract. The Reds don't have the prospects to get him through a trade, but it would be nice to have him at the top of the lineup. If no Eaton, then i'd concentrate on another OF impact bat (Ozuna?). I'd kick the tires on Scooter with a low risk deal with incentives as i still think a full year removed from injury would get him much closer to where he was in '17 and '18.

  19. #88
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    Re: Time to blow it up!

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    Yes, although in all fairness, I want to mention the Scooter injury too.
    Very good year for health.
    For example: Disco was healthy again, which was a pleasant surprise.
    Other than a brief rest that Garrett and Hernandez needed, I think everyone in the bullpen was at least officially "healthy" all year.
    The Reds have been remarkably lucky health wise both compared to the rest of MLB and compared to their own recent past. Probably won’t be as lucky next. That’s another factor.

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  21. #89
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    Re: Time to blow it up!

    Itís already blown up. We basically have one quality offensive player, two young players who may end up being bold offensively and a washed up former MVP who eats up 15% of our payroll. We struggle to score runs and we need 2-3 more quality bats. Our starting pitching is good but after next year we will only have two starters locked up. We may sign someone this offseason to change that though. The bullpen is just awful and we need to start over there. We just donít have a good collection of players. Some of these guys could go to other teams and be valuable to that team but this team just isnít working.

  22. #90
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    Re: Time to blow it up!

    Aquino has been rapidly coming back down to earth lately. I wouldn't pencil him in as the everyday cleanup man for 2020. Ideally we would get a #3 hitter and drop Geno down to cleanup.

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