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Thread: Arizona @ Cincinnati 9-8-19

  1. #106
    Probably not Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: Arizona @ Cincinnati 9-8-19

    Mike Leake career ERA: 4.09
    Mike Leake career xFIP 3.94
    Mike Leake career FIP: 4.22

    Seems like he's generally been right around where he should be.

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  3. #107
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    Re: Arizona @ Cincinnati 9-8-19

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    But his peripherals aren't any better than his actual stats relating to run prevention. He's giving up lots of runs, , as his peripherals suggest he should,
    You were talking about wins, and that was what I was referring to. He’s won 104 games, 8 double digit win seasons, only 97 loses, with a career 4.22 FIP. That’s rare.
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  4. #108
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    Re: Arizona @ Cincinnati 9-8-19

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    You were talking about wins, and that was what I was referring to. He’s won 104 games, 8 double digit win seasons, only 97 loses, with a career 4.22 FIP. That’s rare.
    He's been basically a league average starter with a league average ERA and FIP with about as many wins as loses.

    He's been durable for sure.

    But for some reason you think that 104 wins is great, but 97 loses rate only an "only". He's been basically a ,500 pitcher and there is nothing unual about that.

  5. #109
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    Re: Arizona @ Cincinnati 9-8-19

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    He's been basically a league average starter with a league average ERA and FIP with about as many wins as loses.

    He's been durable for sure.

    But for some reason you think that 104 wins is great, but 97 loses rate only an "only". He's been basically a ,500 pitcher and there is nothing unual about that.
    You seemed perplexed that he had 11 wins with a high ERA. I’m pointing out he’s done that his entire career.
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    Re: Arizona @ Cincinnati 9-8-19

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    You seemed perplexed that he had 11 wins with a high ERA. I’m pointing out he’s done that his entire career.
    I was perplexed because some one suggested he could easily have 17 wins if the bullpen hadn't blown so many saves, and I simply pointed out that with an ERA, FIP, xPp closer to 5, he's been quite lucky this year.

    There is one thing winning 10 games giving up 4 runs per game, it's another winning 17(or even 10) giving up closer to 5 runs.

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  8. #111
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    Re: Arizona @ Cincinnati 9-8-19

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    He's been basically a league average starter with a league average ERA and FIP with about as many wins as loses.

    He's been durable for sure.

    But for some reason you think that 104 wins is great, but 97 loses rate only an "only". He's been basically a ,500 pitcher and there is nothing unual about that.
    Actually a starting pitcher who's been in the league as long as Leake has, who's above .500 is generally a pretty good pitcher. His winning percentage is just a touch under first ballot Hall of Famers like Nolan Ryan.

  9. #112
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    Re: Arizona @ Cincinnati 9-8-19

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Actually a starting pitcher who's been in the league as long as Leake has, who's above .500 is generally a pretty good pitcher. His winning percentage is just a touch under first ballot Hall of Famers like Nolan Ryan.
    So you're suggesting a pitcher who wins marginally more than half of his games (and has the peripherals to match that record with a lifetime WAR less than 20) should be considered pretty good and can be compared favourably to a Hall of Fame pitcher with a lifetime WAR over 100, based entirely on their individual winning percentages?

    Good one.

    Leake is the classic case of an average major league starter, who'll give you 30 starts, go 10-10 with an ERA of about 4.00, with a WAR about 1.6.

  10. #113
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    Re: Arizona @ Cincinnati 9-8-19

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    So you're suggesting a pitcher who wins marginally more than half of his games (and has the peripherals to match that record with a lifetime WAR less than 20) should be considered pretty good and can be compared favourably to a Hall of Fame pitcher with a lifetime WAR over 100, based entirely on their individual winning percentages?

    Good one.

    Leake is the classic case of an average major league starter, who'll give you 30 starts, go 10-10 with an ERA of about 4.00, with a WAR about 1.6.
    I do think Leake is a solid major league pitcher. He's the best pitcher we've drafted in the first rd since Don Gullett in 1969. His bWAR numbers are about 3x Homer Bailey's considering that he's got 3 less yrs. These kinds of guys don't shake out of trees. He can pitch for me as part of a 5 man rotation anyday

  11. #114
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    Re: Arizona @ Cincinnati 9-8-19

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I do think Leake is a solid major league pitcher. He's the best pitcher we've drafted in the first rd since Don Gullett in 1969. His bWAR numbers are about 3x Homer Bailey's considering that he's got 3 less yrs. These kinds of guys don't shake out of trees. He can pitch for me as part of a 5 man rotation anyday
    I said that he's a average major league starter, which makes him a reasonable addition to any rotation. But comparing him to Nolan Ryan.....

  12. #115
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    Re: Arizona @ Cincinnati 9-8-19

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    I said that he's a average major league starter, which makes him a reasonable addition to any rotation. But comparing him to Nolan Ryan.....
    I was comparing his W-L record percentage to Nolan Ryan. I was making the point that lots of good pitchers have a winning percentage just a little over .500. In terms of winning percentage, the two are very comparable, even though Ryan had so many other things going for him...it still didn't often translate into wins

  13. #116
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    Re: Arizona @ Cincinnati 9-8-19

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I was comparing his W-L record percentage to Nolan Ryan. I was making the point that lots of good pitchers have a winning percentage just a little over .500. In terms of winning percentage, the two are very comparable, even though Ryan had so many other things going for him...it still didn't often translate into wins
    Won-loss record is a pretty meaningless stat.

    You may as well compare what flavour of ice cream they preferred.






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  14. #117
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    Re: Arizona @ Cincinnati 9-8-19

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Won-loss record is a pretty meaningless stat.

    You may as well compare what flavour of ice cream they preferred.






    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    I get it. But you brought up wins a long time ago in this discussion:

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    With a high ERA, I don’t think he deserves 16 wins though, 17 after today’s blown save.

    How many wins does he have in poorly pitched games ?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    If it's that meaningless why did you address it earlier?

  15. #118
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    Re: Arizona @ Cincinnati 9-8-19

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I get it. But you brought up wins a long time ago in this discussion:


    I didn't bring up wins. I was simply responding to a post that suggested that Leake was deserving of many more wins due to blown saves. The fact that Leake was in position to win that many games is proof enough that wins are a meaningless stat, when an average pitcher having a mediocre season could potentially accomplish that.

  16. #119
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    Re: Arizona @ Cincinnati 9-8-19

    Quote Originally Posted by cumberlandreds View Post
    I would like to nominate BigKlu as the Redszone official uniform fashion expert. What does everyone else say?
    That depends , does he wear boxers or briefs? LOL
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