I think Moustakas would be good FA target

[membengal]

Hasn't played a lot of it. Limited range, but clean hands. Rates as dead average in DRS. With shifts it probably keeps him from getting overly exposed. Though age probably isn't going to be kind to what he can bring defensively to the middle IF.

I might be hallucinating having read this, but, in today's world of extreme infield shifts and analytics based defensive positioning, I believe there is a current thought that range at 2b and SS is not the requirement that it once was, and that gloves can be hidden (at least at 2b) if need be far more than what a lot of us remember from our growing up years (or even 10 years ago with Phillips)...

Not saying they should get Moustakas - just that his glove at 2b would also not be the reason to pass from my perspective either...

[REDREAD]

That's last year, not necessarily next year or any of the six years after that. Also, what would Senzel's WAR be playing a more natural IF position rather than an OF position for which he had minimal training?

Oh I agree. The whole premise of WAR is failed as well.

I was not putting Senzel down.
This is the logic (hypothetical, of course):
1. Mike Moustakas is convinced to sign here for 2-3 years. Senzel is trade bait for an OF upgrade (with more than 1 year of control)
2. Don't sign Mike Moustakas, keep Senzel ..Ok, there's precious little trade bait on the team. I guess we hunt the FA market for a good OF, preferable a CF.

Who is going to be better in 2020, if both are healthy? Probably Mike Moustakas.
Our window definitely ends in 2022, if not sooner.. I don't mind sacrificing 6 years of Senzel for 2-3 years of Moustakas and whatever Senzel brings back in a trade..

[Kc61]

There was also the whole juiced baseball thing. Moustakas season was par for the course for Mike Moustakas. Good pop, low OBP, solid defense...nothing new here.

He also hit 38 HRs 2 years ago.

Juiced ball or not, Moustakas was tied for 12th in the NL in homers. And his .845 OPS was his career high and a very solid number. He was durable, had 584 PAs, and played for a winning team.

Such a player, coming off that season, is likely to get good offers at his natural and (likely) preferred position.

[Griffey012]

Juiced ball or not, Moustakas was tied for 12th in the NL in homers. And his .845 OPS was his career high and a very solid number. He was durable, had 584 PAs, and played for a winning team.

Such a player, coming off that season, is likely to get good offers at his natural and (likely) preferred position.

Unless the league suddenly changes their stance on generally being uninterested in middle and lower tier free agents, he won't be in high demand, especially on a multi-year deal considering he just turned 31. I mean, we just saw the exact scenario play out after his 2017 season (age 29, nearly identical season to 2019), and then again after 2018 (age 30).

[Kc61]

Unless the league suddenly changes their stance on generally being uninterested in middle and lower tier free agents, he won't be in high demand, especially on a multi-year deal considering he just turned 31. I mean, we just saw the exact scenario play out after his 2017 season (age 29, nearly identical season to 2019), and then again after 2018 (age 30).

2018 was a down year, so I don’t see that post-season as relevant.

But MM has never been forced to change positions to get a deal. After his 2019 season, I think that will continue and he will get acceptable offers to play third base. If the Reds want him to move to second, their offer will be less attractive unless they pay a premium.

[JaxRed]

Sorry, I was referencing Shaw with that comment.

Based on this I took a another peek at Shaw. If Moose re-signs with Brewers (a distinct possibility), he would be penciled in at 3rd, and Huira at 2b. Brwers might non-tender Shaw because he made over 4 million this year and is arb eligible again. In that case Shaw might be a good candidate on a one year "prove it" deal. Plus, Thom could talk about his dad and the Washington CH connection every game !!!

Shaw played 39 games at 2b this year.

[Griffey012]

2018 was a down year, so I don’t see that post-season as relevant.

But MM has never been forced to change positions to get a deal. After his 2019 season, I think that will continue and he will get acceptable offers to play third base. If the Reds want him to move to second, their offer will be less attractive unless they pay a premium.

It is relevant because teams are smarter than ever, nobody is paying Moustakas simply based on his prior season much like nobody will pay him simply based on 2019, they are paying for expected future performance. They were doing the same thing in 2017 and 2018.

I already agreed with the premise of the whole pay him a premium to move positions thing, I just said the premium won't be that high. A 1 year $10M vs $8M or $6.5M vs $5.5M isn't much in my eyes.

[Kc61]

It is relevant because teams are smarter than ever, nobody is paying Moustakas simply based on his prior season much like nobody will pay him simply based on 2019, they are paying for expected future performance. They were doing the same thing in 2017 and 2018.

I already agreed with the premise of the whole pay him a premium to move positions thing, I just said the premium won't be that high. A 1 year $10M vs $8M or $6.5M vs $5.5M isn't much in my eyes.

If MM agrees to play second, I’d pay him. $10 million, agree. Assuming Reds think he can play the position, which he probably can with all the shifts.

[HokieRed]

Last year we were told we had so many options at 2b that we could do anything we wanted to do there. Not only that, the line was that 2b is such an easy position to fill that we'd could always pick up a pretty competent player for that spot. Now we're contemplating 10-15 million per year for several years to fill 2b. I propose instead of going after Moustakas (whom I like ok) that we offer Seattle Peraza, Mahle, and T.J. Antone for Shed Long. (We to take on some of Peraza's money if necessary)

[Frank Robinson]

Sign Galvis for SS
Sign 2B Eric Sogard, 34, bats leadoff paid only 550K last year, 2.6 WAR, .290, .353. .457, .810.

Add MadBum and you could add another big dollar guy like Grandal or Kole Calhoun to bat cleanup and then have enough to add a Howie Kendrick. Most would be two year band aids to allow the farm to build but all can rake, and pitch.

Throw in the obligatory minor league contract guys the Reds have seemed to do so well with and we'd be cookin'.

[mth123]

Remember 2018 when we were saying how 2nd basemen grew on trees which is why we couldn’t give Scooter away for a box of Topps? Now we are paying $30M for one?

What happened? Honest question.

I’m on board for spending on Gregorious, but not for 2nd. Start with OF upgrades 1st, and let the pieces fall where they may for second.

They still grow on trees. This winter: Moustakas, Gennett, Dozier, Holt, Schoop, Kipnis, Zobrist, Castro. I'd guess there is a bargain or two in there who would provide a huge upgrade. It's why I'm not enthused about moving Senzel back to the IF. The Reds need offense. Any one of the guys above is a better bat than any available CF - and some of these guys are coming off horrible years and are still better. I'd approach Scooter about an incentive laden deal with a cheap guarantee and another chance to play at home.

[mth123]

Last year we were told we had so many options at 2b that we could do anything we wanted to do there. Not only that, the line was that 2b is such an easy position to fill that we'd could always pick up a pretty competent player for that spot. Now we're contemplating 10-15 million per year for several years to fill 2b. I propose instead of going after Moustakas (whom I like ok) that we offer Seattle Peraza, Mahle, and T.J. Antone for Shed Long. (We to take on some of Peraza's money if necessary)

I wouldn't deal Mahle for long straight up. There are plenty of second base upgrades out there and most won't cost a ton.

[757690]

They still grow on trees. This winter: Moustakas, Gennett, Dozier, Holt, Schoop, Kipnis, Zobrist, Castro. I'd guess there is a bargain or two in there who would provide a huge upgrade. It's why I'm not enthused about moving Senzel back to the IF. The Reds need offense. Any one of the guys above is a better bat than any available CF - and some of these guys are coming off horrible years and are still better. I'd approach Scooter about an incentive laden deal with a cheap guarantee and another chance to play at home.

Outside of Moustakas, all those guys are below league average, around 1 WAR players. They aren’t real improvements over even Van Meter.

They aren’t growing on trees right now. That was a short term anomaly. There aren’t that many above average, full time. 2B in the game, let alone available. Finding one is going to be tough and expensive.

[schroomytunes]

Offensively speaking, I think this could work and still allow for pitching upgrades:

Free Agent Signings:

1) 2b- Wilmer Flores- young decent numbers, wouldn't be expensive and would be an upgrade to VM/Peraza etc.

2) LF- Marcel Ozuna- still young, solid power, would be everyday LF allowing Winker/Aquino/Senzel/ Ervin to rotate and provide a solid bench.

3) C - Robinson Chirinos- older Catcher, has power wouldn't require a long contract, maybe 2 years, upgrades offense at catcher.

IMHO, this scenerio still allows us to add 2 solid bullpen pieces to upgrade middle relief

[GAC]

We already have far more INF options then we do OF options. And we want to pay a 3Bman $10M/yr to play out of position (2B)(minimal experience) just because they think he'll do alright there? We're already doing that "experiment" in CF, and he's a natural INFer (LOL). Crazy.

Respectfully, I really don't care what his WAR was last season. The guy had his best year ever at age 30, and well above his career norms ... .252 .310 .441 .751

If he refuses the option that means he's looking for a final multi-year contract. Pass. Just because the organization has payroll to spend doesn't mean you pee it away on acquisitions (risk IMO) like this. Priorities. Upgrade OF. This team set a season HR record last year, yet still only scored five more runs then the previous season.