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Thread: Dick Williams says offense was the problem not the bullpen....

  1. #46
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    Re: Dick Williams says offense was the problem not the bullpen....

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolando View Post
    Boy you hit the nail on the head. Everything around him keeps changing managers coaches support staff. But the guy who keeps putting the bad rosters together keeps coming back and if somebody wants to say it's Nick Krail putting the rosters together then why does he keep coming back
    So you want to hold steady with a 100 loss roster and coaching staff? You want to hold steady with a hitting coach whose offense went backwards this year?
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

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  3. #47
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    Re: Dick Williams says offense was the problem not the bullpen....

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    Fair statement, Lorenzen did have a rough period from overuse too.
    Why do I say overuse? Because later in the season, Bell started giving some relievers an extended rest, and it helped most of them.
    (Did not help Hernandez)
    I guess .. to be more exact.. Lorenzen was the most consistent reliever.
    But we both agree.. This bullpen needs at least 2 more quality arms.
    I would like the Reds to add 3 relievers to improve the odds that 2 of them end up being quality.
    Bell leans on his pen hard, so Dick Williams needs to give him a pen that is deeper than 2-3 guys..
    Extended rest didn't help Garrett either. He was terrible after his 9 game suspension. Mostly due to his falling in love with his slider

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  5. #48
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    Re: Dick Williams says offense was the problem not the bullpen....

    The bullpen needs help, but itís not likely to be Grandal- or Rendon-level names. Maybe thatís what Williams was saying. A big splash for the offense and depth for the bullpen.

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    Re: Dick Williams says offense was the problem not the bullpen....

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    So you want to hold steady with a 100 loss roster and coaching staff? You want to hold steady with a hitting coach whose offense went backwards this year?
    No what I'm saying I want to get rid of the man who put together the 90 plus rosters and the man who hired hitting coach to begin with. He's been allowed to have three different managers four different pitching coaches and now his third different hitting coach. But yet he gets a pass every year to come back.
    Crazy Reds Fan

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  8. #50
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    Re: Dick Williams says offense was the problem not the bullpen....

    Quote Originally Posted by scotly50 View Post
    Building this team is like playing whack-a-mole. Address one area then another pops ups up.
    We need more hammers.
    Go Gators!

  9. #51
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    Re: Dick Williams says offense was the problem not the bullpen....

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolando View Post
    No what I'm saying I want to get rid of the man who put together the 90 plus rosters and the man who hired hitting coach to begin with. He's been allowed to have three different managers four different pitching coaches and now his third different hitting coach. But yet he gets a pass every year to come back.
    Walt Jocketty is long gone, might want to read up on Dick’s timeline with the Reds. He also brought us Derek Johnson and Sonny Gray, that’s two home runs in the first offseason ownership loosened the reigns a bit.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

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  11. #52
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    Re: Dick Williams says offense was the problem not the bullpen....

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    Walt Jocketty is long gone, might want to read up on Dick’s timeline with the Reds. He also brought us Derek Johnson and Sonny Gray, that’s two home runs in the first offseason ownership loosened the reigns a bit.
    That's good he has added 3 impactful people since he's been in charge Derrick Johnson Sonny Gray and Luis Castillo
    Crazy Reds Fan

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    Re: Dick Williams says offense was the problem not the bullpen....

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolando View Post
    That's good he has added 3 impactful people since he's been in charge Derrick Johnson Sonny Gray and Luis Castillo
    November 2015 is when he took over with Jocketty lingering around, December 2016 was probably when it really became his show to run. Considering the limitations given to him by Castellini (who the finger should really be pointed at) and the mess of a roster left to him, I'd say that's pretty decent. I am certainly not here to appoint him the next Andrew Fridman, but I give him a passing grade.

    I also like the hire of Kyle Boddy, it tells me Dick and Krall are doing their damnedest to get the Reds into the 21st century in terms of their organization and player development.
    Last edited by Griffey012; 10-15-2019 at 11:09 AM.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

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  14. #54
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Dick Williams says offense was the problem not the bullpen....

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    December 2016 is when he took over fully. Considering the limitations given to him by Castellini (who the finger should really be pointed at) and the mess of a roster left to him, I'd say that's pretty decent. I am certainly not here to appoint him the next Andrew Fridman, but I give him a passing grade.

    I also like the hire of Kyle Boddy, it tells me Dick and Krall are doing their damnedest to get the Reds into the 21st century in terms of their organization and player development.
    I think the front office did a pretty good job this past offseason, but before that? Horrible. Even when the team has no budget at all (Which sucks), they should at least try to improve the team.. Running out a rotation of Finnegan, Romano, Homer, Robert Stephenson, etc is just embarrassing and no attempt was made to address it.. So prior to this 12 month period, the front office gets an F in the Dick Williams era.
    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

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    Re: Dick Williams says offense was the problem not the bullpen....

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    I think the front office did a pretty good job this past offseason, but before that? Horrible. Even when the team has no budget at all (Which sucks), they should at least try to improve the team.. Running out a rotation of Finnegan, Romano, Homer, Robert Stephenson, etc is just embarrassing and no attempt was made to address it.. So prior to this 12 month period, the front office gets an F in the Dick Williams era.
    I can't give someone an "F" when they are asked to build a car and then given an empty pizza box, 3 cigarettes, a nail, a screwdriver, and $7.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

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    Re: Dick Williams says offense was the problem not the bullpen....

    With the evolution in the game on the way starting pitchers are handled, a lot teams were incurring bullpen woes (weariness). So it's not a problem peculiar with the Reds.

    Stick with upgrading the offense (production). Do not let the bullpen be the "excuse" for not doing so.
    "In my day you had musicians who experimented with drugs. Now it's druggies experimenting with music" - Alfred G Clark (circa 1972)

  18. #57
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    Re: Dick Williams says offense was the problem not the bullpen....

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    I can't give someone an "F" when they are asked to build a car and then given an empty pizza box, 3 cigarettes, a nail, a screwdriver, and $7.
    I would have more sympathy for Williams if not the whole reason he got the job what does connection to ownership. I will admit he did a good job last winter. But now is when we find out what he's really made of because he needs to put a playoff roster together next year and they need to make the playoffs or they need to find somebody who can do that because obviously he can't if he doesn't do it this year
    Crazy Reds Fan

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  20. #58
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    Re: Dick Williams says offense was the problem not the bullpen....

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    I can't give someone an "F" when they are asked to build a car and then given an empty pizza box, 3 cigarettes, a nail, a screwdriver, and $7.
    But he was not asked to build a car.. His implied job is to improve the team.
    Jim Bowden was able to talk Carl Linder into spending money (sometimes), which was a difficult task.
    Bowden found a way to add talent without adding payroll (example, Juan Guzman, others)
    And Lindner was a bigger cheapskate than the current ownership.
    If Dick Williams is just going to throw up his hands and say "Sorry fans, my Uncle wants a dividend this year, so I am not even going to try, but we will have fun on draft day", then he is not doing his job and should be fired.

    If Dick Williams' job is not to improve the team in 2016, 2017.. then why even have a general manager?
    And he was given some money.. he just spent it on David Hernandez, and other miscellaneous players.
    Oh yea, and in 2016, he signed Alfredo Simon,, .. I am not passing judgement on that move, just saying he had some money to spend. He also screwed up the Jay Bruce trade and gave away Brandon Phillips for nothing (I think maybe a little bit of salary relief). Sure, not every move was bad.. He had money to sign Scooter , that was a good move, but again, it proves he had money to work with.

    Sorry, no free pass for Dick Williams. I will gladly give him credit for the good moves (Scooter, Castillo, and probably some others that I do not recall), but his overall body of work prior to this year was a disaster. I actually gave him a "B" for his last 12 months in the poll.
    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

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  22. #59
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    Re: Dick Williams says offense was the problem not the bullpen....

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolando View Post
    I would have more sympathy for Williams if not the whole reason he got the job what does connection to ownership.
    That connection doesn't bother me one bit if he proves, in the long run, he knows what he's doing.

    But now is when we find out what he's really made of because he needs to put a playoff roster together next year and they need to make the playoffs or they need to find somebody who can do that because obviously he can't if he doesn't do it this year
    He's made his public announcement (stuck his neck out) that this team is committed to going for it. This off-season (decisions) will be the most telling if he does know what he's doing or not.
    "In my day you had musicians who experimented with drugs. Now it's druggies experimenting with music" - Alfred G Clark (circa 1972)

  23. #60
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    Re: Dick Williams says offense was the problem not the bullpen....

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    With the evolution in the game on the way starting pitchers are handled, a lot teams were incurring bullpen woes (weariness). So it's not a problem peculiar with the Reds.

    Stick with upgrading the offense (production). Do not let the bullpen be the "excuse" for not doing so.
    If the Reds went into the season planning to ride the bullpen as hard as they did, they should have had more good bullpen depth.
    No excuse for that. If they could not get that depth, well that means that Garrett, Hernandez and Lorenzen should not have been in practically every game before the all star break.. There were games where the Reds were trailing in which lesser relievers could have eaten innings. If those lesser relievers could not be trusted when the Reds were down 2 runs.. well, why are they on the team then? Dick Williams should have gotten better talent.

    I don't give the Reds a pass just because other teams had the same problem. How about being a bit different than the rest of the league?
    Instead of having the starters trying to K every batter and getting up to 100 pitches by the 5th inning, how about selectively pitching to contact in some situations so they can go deeper in the game (like Cueto did).
    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!


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