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Thread: Dave Parker on HOF ballot

  1. #61
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Dave Parker on HOF ballot

    If I was voting I'd probably vote for Whitaker, who has the highest career WAR of any of those considered, and Ted Simmons. Simmons had 50.3 WAR in his career, 10th all time among catchers, and a higher score than several catchers already in the HOF. I'd be tempted to also vote forTommy John and Dwight Evans.
    Incidentally, of the players under consideration, the players with a the lowest career WAR are Parker and Garvey.
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  3. #62
    Someday Never Comes mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Dave Parker on HOF ballot

    Marvin Miller and Ted Simmons got in. Lou Whitaker was robbed.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

  4. #63
    Beer is good!! George Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: Dave Parker on HOF ballot

    From Jaffe: Modern Baseball Era Ballot (12 votes needed for election) Simmons (13 votes, 81.3%); Miller (12 votes, 75%); Evans (8 votes, 50%); Parker (7 votes, 43.8%); Garvey (6 votes, 37.5%); Whitaker (6 votes, 37.5%); John, Mattingly, Munson and Murphy each received three or fewer votes.

    I am shocked Garvey received so many votes and Whitaker so few.
    "Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard

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  6. #64
    Member reds77's Avatar
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    Re: Dave Parker on HOF ballot

    I suppose Simmons playing Catcher helped him secure the vote? Parker and some of the other guys were better players than Simmons.

  7. #65
    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: Dave Parker on HOF ballot

    Jayson Stark
    @jaysonst
    Voting results from the 16-person Modern Era Committee's Hall of Fame balloting (12 votes needed for election):

    Ted Simmons 13
    Marvin Miller 12
    Dwight Evans 8
    Dave Parker 7
    Steve Garvey 6
    Lou Whitaker 6

    Results not released for remaining candidates

  8. #66
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Dave Parker on HOF ballot

    Quote Originally Posted by George Anderson View Post
    From Jaffe: Modern Baseball Era Ballot (12 votes needed for election) Simmons (13 votes, 81.3%); Miller (12 votes, 75%); Evans (8 votes, 50%); Parker (7 votes, 43.8%); Garvey (6 votes, 37.5%); Whitaker (6 votes, 37.5%); John, Mattingly, Munson and Murphy each received three or fewer votes.

    I am shocked Garvey received so many votes and Whitaker so few.
    I'm not at all shocked that Garvey got so many votes and Whitaker so few. I disagree with the votes but the result does not surprise me. Garvey had the name and the fame, while Whitaker, a better player, did not. If Garvey had not won the Breeders Cup he'd probably be in the HOF.
    As it is, I'm in agreement with the induction of Marvin Miller and Ted Simmons.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

  9. #67
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    Re: Dave Parker on HOF ballot

    It's a popularity contest and that's insulting.

    Feel terrible for Whitaker.

  10. #68
    Someday Never Comes mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Dave Parker on HOF ballot

    Quote Originally Posted by reds77 View Post
    I suppose Simmons playing Catcher helped him secure the vote? Parker and some of the other guys were better players than Simmons.
    I think Parker sidetracked his career for a couple of years messing with Coke. He was at the height of his productivity and fell of cliff, got fat ,etc. Had he put up his typical seasons from that period those two years, he'd be in now. The fact it was an addiction created from his own behavior keeps him from getting a pass from at least some of this committee IMO. It's not like he lost those seasons to go fight in WWII. Since they had to pick and choose who to vote for, I'm sure some couldn't justify voting for parker over guys Simmons, Dwight Evans and Lou Whotaker.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

  11. #69
    TyrannoSuarez Wrecks WrongVerb's Avatar
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    Re: Dave Parker on HOF ballot

    Whitaker and Garvey both have a career 117 OPS+
    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    It's really difficult to believe an administration with a track record for both lying and graft.

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    Re: Dave Parker on HOF ballot

    Quote Originally Posted by reds77 View Post
    I suppose Simmons playing Catcher helped him secure the vote? Parker and some of the other guys were better players than Simmons.
    Yes, it's positional. I think Simmons was every bit as good as Gary Carter from the same era.

    The "Small Hall" is dead. They might as well put in a lot more while guys are still alive and can enjoy it.
    Last edited by getfoul; 12-09-2019 at 12:41 PM.

  13. #71
    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
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    Re: Dave Parker on HOF ballot

    Quote Originally Posted by getfoul View Post
    Yes, it's positional. I think Simmons was every bit as good as Gary Carter from the same era.
    Not really. Simmons was fine defensively, but Carter was very, very good back there. Add that to the face the hitter with the top of the similarity score for Carter was Johnny Bench, then Carter out distances Simmons.
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

  14. #72
    post hype sleeper cincinnati chili's Avatar
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    Re: Dave Parker on HOF ballot

    Quote Originally Posted by WrongVerb View Post
    Whitaker and Garvey both have a career 117 OPS+
    And this demonstrates two of the limitations of the stat. It doesn't compare well across positions, and just like the flaw in regular OPS, the "O" is a lot more important than the "S." Also, there's a lot of inaccuracy in the park adjustments, given that "park effects" don't effect different types of players in the same way. Both BBR and Fangraphs have Whitaker being twice as valuable as Garvey, and I'd say that's about right.

    And one more thing, Garvey grounded into 108 more double plays. OPS+ doesn't account for that.
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  16. #73
    TyrannoSuarez Wrecks WrongVerb's Avatar
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    Re: Dave Parker on HOF ballot

    Quote Originally Posted by cincinnati chili View Post
    And this demonstrates two of the limitations of the stat. It doesn't compare well across positions, and just like the flaw in regular OPS, the "O" is a lot more important than the "S." Also, there's a lot of inaccuracy in the park adjustments, given that "park effects" don't effect different types of players in the same way. Both BBR and Fangraphs have Whitaker being twice as valuable as Garvey, and I'd say that's about right.

    And one more thing, Garvey grounded into 108 more double plays. OPS+ doesn't account for that.
    There are certainly lots of limitations with that stat. I've often wondered if a "bases produced per PA" might be a better stat. Combine the bases the batter acquired on his own (i.e. a double == 2 bases produced) with the number of bases he pushed baserunners along (i.e. runner on 3rd, double drives him in == 3 base produced (1 base for the runner plus 2 bases for the double)). You'd have both a counting stat (bases produced) and rate stat (bases produced per PA) by measuring those things.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    It's really difficult to believe an administration with a track record for both lying and graft.

  17. #74
    Moderator cumberlandreds's Avatar
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    Re: Dave Parker on HOF ballot

    I'm surprised Simmons got in. While being a very good hitter I thought he was a very average defensive catcher. He was a couple of notches behind Bench and a notch behind Carter. I'm sure politics goes into these votes. Apparently Simmons just had more people for him. Whitaker should be in and he was robbed as others have said.

    Marvin Miller deserves it. He changed baseball more than anyone else by giving strong leadership to the players union. Every player that comes along should bow down to him and thank him for all the millions of $$$ they are making.
    Reds Fan Since 1971

  18. #75
    5.3 Posts Abv Replacement BluegrassRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: Dave Parker on HOF ballot

    The HOF has become a waste of time, sadly. Anyone with a functioning set of eyes and half a brain who watched MLB while Dave Parker, Harold Baines, and Ted Simmons played would tell you it's insane that the latter two are in while the first is not.

    Dave Parker at one time was arguably the best all-around OF in baseball. You'd be hard pressed to come up with one or two guys from 1975-85 who were better at all facets of the game. Ted Simmons was a very good player who did it for a long time. Nobody ever thought of him as the best at his position.

    I'm fed up with the HOF.
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