Reds Sign RP Nate Jones to Minor Leage Deal

[UPRedsFan]

For the record, I think the bullpen will be comprised of: Iglesias, Lorenzen, Garrett, Stephenson, Sims, Reed, Jones and Thornburg if all are healthy. The Reds should let Romano or Raley go through waivers if everyone is healthy.

A little different wrinkle:
Iglesias
Lorenzen
Garrett
Stephenson
Reed
Sims
Mahle
Jones/Thornburg/Deleon/Bowman/Kuhnel/Shafer competition with Jones and Thornburg getting first dibs if they prove healthy in spring

I think Mahle needs to be in Cincinnati as a middle 3 inning guy. It's time to win, not develop. They need the best arms available.

[Kc61]

Let's come at his another way.

The following relievers are out of options and would have to clear waivers to be sent down to AAA:

Amir Garrett
Robert Stephenson
Lucas Sims
Cody Reed
Sal Romano
Brooks Raley

The following, if signed to a major league contract, would also have to clear waivers or be traded:
Nate Jones
Tyler Thornburg

There's also Iglesias, Lorenzen, Bowman, Mahle, DeLeon, Kuhnel, Shafer, Hendrix, Smith, and Alaniz-- all of whom have options.

You've got 8 slots. In your opinion, who needs to go down or be dealt in order to add more relief arms?

I don’t know yet but most of these names are turnaround situations or unproven pitchers. i really can’t get too worked up if they have to be traded, waived, or sent down. I see only a few current high quality relievers on the list and the first thing I’d do is try to add a couple more, one setup man, one middle man. Then I’d sort things out.

[OGB]

A little different wrinkle:
Iglesias
Lorenzen
Garrett
Stephenson
Reed
Sims
Mahle
Jones/Thornburg/Deleon/Bowman/Kuhnel/Shafer competition with Jones and Thornburg getting first dibs if they prove healthy in spring

I think Mahle needs to be in Cincinnati as a middle 3 inning guy. It's time to win, not develop. They need the best arms available.

Agree on Mahle. I think the Reds are a better team in 2020 with him in the pen rather than Louisville.

[Griffey012]

I don’t know yet but most of these names are turnaround situations or unproven pitchers. i really can’t get too worked up if they have to be traded, waived, or sent down. I see only a few current high quality relievers on the list and the first thing I’d do is try to add a couple more, one setup man, one middle man. Then I’d sort things out.

Any names in mind that are free agents or might be available?

[Spike]

Collin McHugh.

From what I heard he is healthy.

[Griffey012]

Collin McHugh.

From what I heard he is healthy.

I totally forgot he was a Free Agent. I’d love to see the reds add him to the mix. I wonder if he is keen on relieving or wants a starter role somewhere?

[mth123]

Let's come at his another way.

The following relievers are out of options and would have to clear waivers to be sent down to AAA:

Amir Garrett
Robert Stephenson
Lucas Sims
Cody Reed
Sal Romano
Brooks Raley

The following, if signed to a major league contract, would also have to clear waivers or be traded:
Nate Jones
Tyler Thornburg

There's also Iglesias, Lorenzen, Bowman, Mahle, DeLeon, Kuhnel, Shafer, Hendrix, Smith, and Alaniz-- all of whom have options.

You've got 8 slots. In your opinion, who needs to go down or be dealt in order to add more relief arms?

You didn't ask me, but here is how I see it.

Lorenzen had a really good year and he's a lock for the mid to late innings. Iglesias and Garrett are coming off poor seasons, but are generally good pitchers and are locks as well. Stephenson is far from being proven, but he's done enough to be a lock and in line for a more important role. That's 4 spots.

I'd devote one spot to the AAA Shuttle. Guys with options Bowman, De Leon, Kuhnel mostly with others down the road depending on how they pitch. I'd give that spot to Bowman to start out. Mahle would be in the AAA rotation and ready when needed. My guess is he'll be needed for at least 15 starts in the big leagues.

I'd have one spot for an out of options question mark. Romano isn't a candidate IMO. He's my next cut if the team needs a roster spot. Reed and Sims are the logical candidates. A lot depends on whether the Reds can add another lefty. If not, Reed has an edge. But Reed is far from proven having pitched about 6 innings last year and never really establishing himself. Sims showed flashes, but he had both an ERA and FIP in the mid-4s last year. For a reliever, that's like mid 5's for a starter. If the Reds are at risk of losing both, then maybe they both stick and the AAA shuttle guys all start out in the minors.

That leaves two spots for acquisitions. At least one of those should have solid end of game experience with ability to be a shut down fireman. Ken Giles is the guy I'd like to see them acquire. I'd offer Aquino for him. Some one mentioned Ian Kennedy. I wouldn't mind him. He's expensive and should cost little in talent. It's probably one or the other, but too much money for both. I'd still like another more proven lefty. Mark Watson might be a guy. He exercised his player option in SF for 3 Million or so. He's been pretty effective and could probably be had for a middling prospect and some roster excess. Maybe Romano and VanMeter or something along those lines. Probably less.

Not concerned about losing Thornburg or Raley if that happens.

[Spike]

I totally forgot he was a Free Agent. I’d love to see the reds add him to the mix. I wonder if he is keen on relieving or wants a starter role somewhere?

Heard him on MLB Radio and he says he would do either, but in looking for a situation to sign, he hopes the team uses him one way or the other. He has succeeded in both before, but most recently he has been somewhat dominating at times as a reliever which is our need right now.

[DocRed]

I totally forgot he was a Free Agent. I’d love to see the reds add him to the mix. I wonder if he is keen on relieving or wants a starter role somewhere?

Bauer definitely would not be....

https://twitter.com/BauerOutage/stat...eating-scandal

[Edd Roush]

A little different wrinkle:
Iglesias
Lorenzen
Garrett
Stephenson
Reed
Sims
Mahle
Jones/Thornburg/Deleon/Bowman/Kuhnel/Shafer competition with Jones and Thornburg getting first dibs if they prove healthy in spring

I think Mahle needs to be in Cincinnati as a middle 3 inning guy. It's time to win, not develop. They need the best arms available.

The problem with Mahle in Cincy as a reliever is that he is the best bet to be the best starter to pitch way more than three innings in key games when a top 5 starter is inevitably hurt. Someone posted the numbers in another thread, but what it boiled down to was that most of the playoff teams had at least six starters make six starts for them last year. We need a good #6 and Mahle is the best bet.

I am also on the record as wanting Jose De Leon to go to Louisville as a starter and if he passes Mahle on the depth chart, I wouldn't mind Mahle to the Cincy bullpen, but I think Mahle is a worse reliever than Jones and Thornburg when they are healthy and isn't a lock to be better than Bowman.

[Edd Roush]

Heard him on MLB Radio and he says he would do either, but in looking for a situation to sign, he hopes the team uses him one way or the other. He has succeeded in both before, but most recently he has been somewhat dominating at times as a reliever which is our need right now.

Probably looking for guaranteed money which would certainly be a risk for a guy who was shut down 9/17/19 with continued pain in his pitching elbow.

He is probably a better flyer than Jones or Thonburg, but he is definitely more expensive, too.

He regressed in a big way last year, and while his heater is still sitting where it was in 2017 when he was effective, 2018 he saw a surge in velocity that he was unable to maintain in 2019 and the pitch became ineffective. The slider is still nasty, and I think he could be a good reliever, but he isn't a lock to be effective in 2020.

[Tracy Jones]

The problem with Mahle in Cincy as a reliever is that he is the best bet to be the best starter to pitch way more than three innings in key games when a top 5 starter is inevitably hurt. Someone posted the numbers in another thread, but what it boiled down to was that most of the playoff teams had at least six starters make six starts for them last year. We need a good #6 and Mahle is the best bet.

I am also on the record as wanting Jose De Leon to go to Louisville as a starter and if he passes Mahle on the depth chart, I wouldn't mind Mahle to the Cincy bullpen, but I think Mahle is a worse reliever than Jones and Thornburg when they are healthy and isn't a lock to be better than Bowman.

I agree with you on Mahle and the 6th starter thing, but his ERA through the first 4 innings of his starts is anywhere from passable to pretty good, and then it falls off the cliff in the 5th and 6th. If the Reds can find another viable “6th starter” then Mahle’s best role might actually be as a reliever.

[Edd Roush]

I agree with you on Mahle and the 6th starter thing, but his ERA through the first 4 innings of his starts is anywhere from passable to pretty good, and then it falls off the cliff in the 5th and 6th. If the Reds can find another viable “6th starter” then Mahle’s best role might actually be as a reliever.

Going a bit off topic here, but I think it is relevant, but Mahle is actually a stud his first two times through a lineup and then falls off a cliff.

Throughout his entire career, his ERA the first time through the line-up is 3.35. The second time through his ERA is 3.88. His third time through is 10.38 and he was only allowed to go through a fourth time once and gave up a home run.

Given eight relievers, the Reds can afford a starter or (two or three or four, even) that only go through the line-up two times as long as they are effective those two times through the line-up. Remember, relievers now have to face three hitters so managers won't be able to blow through a bullpen as quickly anymore. Two times through the line-up as effectively as Mahle is pitching usually gets you through five innings or so. The bullpen should be able to carry him the rest of the way.

[Tracy Jones]

Going a bit off topic here, but I think it is relevant, but Mahle is actually a stud his first two times through a lineup and then falls off a cliff.

Throughout his entire career, his ERA the first time through the line-up is 3.35. The second time through his ERA is 3.88. His third time through is 10.38 and he was only allowed to go through a fourth time once and gave up a home run.

Given eight relievers, the Reds can afford a starter or (two or three or four, even) that only go through the line-up two times as long as they are effective those two times through the line-up. Remember, relievers now have to face three hitters so managers won't be able to blow through a bullpen as quickly anymore. Two times through the line-up as effectively as Mahle is pitching usually gets you through five innings or so. The bullpen should be able to carry him the rest of the way.

Yeah the Reds are inevitably going to need a 6th and 7th starter at some points during the year and Mahle is definitely the best known commodity they currently have to fill that role, but given those splits couldn’t Mahle be a late inning shutdown guy and that role being his most effective and useful for this team? I think it’s something they should look at if some of the other names mentioned are able to fill that 6th and 7th starter roles.

[Edd Roush]

Yeah the Reds are inevitably going to need a 6th and 7th starter at some points during the year and Mahle is definitely the best known commodity they currently have to fill that role, but given those splits couldn’t Mahle be a late inning shutdown guy and that role being his most effective and useful for this team? I think it’s something they should look at if some of the other names mentioned are able to fill that 6th and 7th starter roles.

I am sure he could be a solid late inning shutdown guy, but his last non-start was in 2015. Most starters can convert to a reliever mindset, but there are some, like Homer Bailey who do not want to/cannot relieve. Also, I would rather have my most effective pitchers getting 15 - 18 outs, even if it is only 10 times throughout the year than getting 3 outs 30 - 40 times throughout the year.