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Thread: Reds Trade Scott Dunn for D'Angelo Jimenez

  1. #91
    Member pedro's Avatar
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    I have no clue if Jimenez is a badguy or not. Klesko, when he was in Atlanta was a so called problem too, so who knows?
    I agree hearsay is hearsay. but I lived in atlanta in the entire time klesko was with Braves and I don't recall anyone ever calling him a bad guy. now, I could be wrong on that, but ......


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  3. #92
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Originally posted by pedro
    I agree hearsay is hearsay. but I lived in atlanta in the entire time klesko was with Braves and I don't recall anyone ever calling him a bad guy. now, I could be wrong on that, but ......
    I've been here since 88 myself..

    I didn't say that Klesko was a "bad guy", but there were some rumblings about him..he complained about playing time, mostly because Cox refused to let him hit against LHP.

    Not saying that Klesko wasn't right to complain either, Bobby screwed him for a long time.

    PSR

  4. #93
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    Don't want to start anything about race, creed, etc...but latino's seem to get more of a rap for not working hard and that always strikes me as odd. In this case -he came back from a broken neck for god's sake. He may be a real lazy guy-but that seems to be a good sign.

    Lastly, did anyone notice in the SI player ratings that most of the guys who were considered lazy were latino--most of the guys considered hard working were white.

    These guys come to a foreign country--they raised in poverty (for the most part) and sign for peanuts. Many of them dint even have proper diets, yet they get considered "lazy". That strikes me as a little bit of pre-judgement.

  5. #94
    AlienTruckStopSexWorker cincinnati chili's Avatar
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    Good points all around coop, and that's why I think Jimenez is more than worth a look. But I will also point out that Klesko's played with hundreds of players from Latin America, and Jimenez was the one guy he pegged as the 'laziest in 10 years.'

    Joe Morgan had a reputation before he came to Cincinnati; he said it was because people in the Houston clubhouse/front office were prejudiced. History would suggest that Morgan was correct.

    Maybe Klesko didn't think he spent enough time in the weight room or something frivolous like that.

    All I'm saying is that if D-Lo dogs it, we've been warned.
    Stick to your guns.

  6. #95
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Jiminez is far from a guaranteed salve for any of the Reds' ills. He's got the ability to be a good hitter, but he hasn't been one. His defense and speed never rebounded after the car crash. As chili notes, his attitude has left many unimpressed.

    Yet I still like the trade. He's got abillity and he's played well enough to hold down a big league roster spot. Sometimes players take a long time to figure it all out - Mark McLemore springs to mind.

    I like Scott Dunn. He had arguably the best stuff in the system (well, now that Ryan Wagner's around, the second-best stuff). He looks like he might be putting things together in AA as a reliever, but he's been on a yo-yo all year. Everytime his ERA starts to get low, he gets shelled and it's another 10 days before he's back under 4.00 again. He's got talent, a lot of it. IMO another organization would be wise to try him in the rotation again and see if they can sort him out.

    But I like the trade. As Arschloch noted, they're almost the same age and Jiminez has been in the majors for three years already. He'll get a shot at 2B soon enough no matter what Jimbo says in public. If D'Angelo hits, the job will be his no questions asked.

    Let's see, that gives the Reds Jiminez, Olmedo and Lopez as 25-and-under 2B/SS candidates. What are the odds of Barry Larkin finishing the month as a Red if the club continues to lose touch with .500? IMO, not high.
    I'm not a system player. I am a system.

  7. #96
    Member CougarQuest's Avatar
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    I don't think this is a bad trade by any stretch of the imagination. It only costs us Scott Dunn, who I don't see as a player that will help the major league team. At worst, D'Angelo is a bat off the bench that can play 3 different infield positions. At best, he could be our starting 2nd baseman and leadoff hitter. This seems to me, to be a good long term and short term trade.

    I think Castro is gone. Be it after the season is over, if not sooner.

    This gives the Reds 3 switch hitters for SS & 2nd to look at long term. 22 year old Olmedo, 25 year old Jimenez and 23 year old Lopez.
    Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.

  8. #97
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    We haven't discussed this trade could be the start or another trade. The Reds take a few days to get to know and rate Jimemez with their other MIs. Then they can package one of their MIs with other players for a starting pitcher. Florida might want one of our MIs if LC is leaving the Marlins in a deal for SP Penny. Who knows Jimemez might be leaving again soon but I doubt it.

  9. #98
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    ESPN.com | MLB Index | MLB Players | MLB Scores | Fantasy Baseball Player Search
    #5 D'Angelo Jimenez Chicago White Sox | Roster | Statistics



    AVG
    .255 HR
    7 RBI
    26


    Age: 25
    Height: 6-0
    Weight: 195 lbs.
    Bats: Both
    Throws: Right
    Pos: 2B



    Born: December 21, 1977, Santo Domingo, DR
    Full Name: D'Angelo Jimenez
    College: None
    Experience: 4 years
    Debut: 1999
    2003 Salary: $345,000

    RosterR. AlomarS. Alomar Jr.J. BorchardC. BrumbaughM. BuehrleB. ColonJ. CredeB. DaubachC. EverettJ. GarlandR. GloadG. GloverT. GordonT. GraffaninoW. HarrisB. KochR. KohlmeierP. KonerkoC. LeeE. LoaizaC. MaloneD. MarteM. OlivoM. OrdonezA. RowandD. SandersF. ThomasJ. ValentinR. WhiteD. WrightK. Wunsch
    Buy this card on etopps.com!

    Profile | Fantasy | Statistics | Splits | Game Log | Batter vs. Pitcher | Auctions | Search: ESPN | Web



    BATTING SPLITS: 2003
    BATTING: 2001 | 2002 | 2003 | THREE YEAR (2000-2002)
    PITCHING: 2002 | THREE YEAR (2000-2002)
    Overall AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB HBP SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
    Total 271 35 69 11
    5
    7
    26
    32
    0
    46
    4
    3
    .255
    .332
    .410
    .742

    As RHB 64 0 19 2
    0
    1
    7
    6
    0
    10
    0
    0
    .297
    .357
    .375
    .732

    As LHB 207 0 50 9
    5
    6
    19
    26
    0
    36
    0
    0
    .242
    .325
    .420
    .745

    By Breakdown AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB HBP SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
    vs. Left 64 7 19 2
    0
    1
    7
    6
    0
    10
    1
    1
    .297
    .357
    .375
    .732

    vs. Right 207 28 50 9
    5
    6
    19
    26
    0
    36
    3
    2
    .242
    .325
    .420
    .745

    Home 125 14 30 5
    3
    3
    12
    16
    0
    25
    3
    1
    .240
    .326
    .400
    .726

    Road 146 21 39 6
    2
    4
    14
    16
    0
    21
    1
    2
    .267
    .337
    .418
    .755

    Day 99 13 28 3
    3
    4
    18
    16
    0
    14
    0
    0
    .283
    .379
    .495
    .874

    Night 172 22 41 8
    2
    3
    8
    16
    0
    32
    4
    3
    .238
    .303
    .360
    .663

    Grass 229 29 55 10
    5
    6
    21
    29
    0
    39
    4
    3
    .240
    .324
    .406
    .730

    Turf 42 6 14 1
    0
    1
    5
    3
    0
    7
    0
    0
    .333
    .378
    .429
    .807

    Dome 34 4 11 1
    0
    0
    3
    1
    0
    6
    0
    0
    .324
    .343
    .353
    .696

    Open 237 31 58 10
    5
    7
    23
    31
    0
    40
    4
    3
    .245
    .331
    .418
    .749

    By Day/Month AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB HBP SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
    Last 7 Days 4 0 1 0
    0
    0
    1
    2
    0
    0
    0
    0
    .250
    .500
    .250
    .750

    March 4 0 0 0
    0
    0
    0
    0
    0
    0
    0
    0
    .000
    .000
    .000
    .000

    April 91 14 27 6
    4
    3
    10
    15
    0
    14
    2
    2
    .297
    .396
    .549
    .945

    May 85 11 25 3
    0
    1
    5
    11
    0
    11
    0
    1
    .294
    .375
    .365
    .740

    June 91 10 17 2
    1
    3
    11
    6
    0
    21
    2
    0
    .187
    .235
    .330
    .565

    Pre All-Star 271 35 69 11
    5
    7
    26
    32
    0
    46
    4
    3
    .255
    .332
    .410
    .742

    By Opponent AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB HBP SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
    vs. ARI 10 0 1 0
    0
    0
    0
    0
    0
    1
    0
    0
    .100
    .100
    .100
    .200

    vs. BAL 22 3 6 2
    0
    0
    0
    3
    0
    6
    0
    1
    .273
    .360
    .364
    .724

    vs. BOS 15 3 3 1
    0
    0
    2
    2
    0
    6
    1
    0
    .200
    .294
    .267
    .561

    vs. CHC 16 0 1 0
    0
    0
    1
    3
    0
    5
    0
    0
    .063
    .211
    .063
    .274

    vs. CLE 38 8 17 2
    2
    3
    9
    7
    0
    2
    1
    1
    .447
    .522
    .842
    1.364

    vs. DET 30 6 10 3
    2
    2
    5
    4
    0
    5
    0
    0
    .333
    .412
    .767
    1.179

    vs. KAN 20 3 4 0
    1
    0
    0
    4
    0
    2
    1
    0
    .200
    .333
    .300
    .633

    vs. LOS 11 2 2 0
    0
    0
    2
    0
    0
    1
    1
    0
    .182
    .182
    .182
    .364

    vs. MIN 37 2 8 1
    0
    0
    1
    2
    0
    9
    0
    0
    .216
    .256
    .243
    .499

    vs. OAK 11 0 1 1
    0
    0
    1
    1
    0
    1
    0
    0
    .091
    .167
    .182
    .349

    vs. SDG 5 0 0 0
    0
    0
    0
    0
    0
    0
    0
    0
    .000
    .000
    .000
    .000

    vs. SFO 13 1 2 0
    0
    1
    1
    0
    0
    4
    0
    0
    .154
    .154
    .385
    .539

    vs. SEA 18 3 8 1
    0
    0
    0
    4
    0
    0
    0
    1
    .444
    .545
    .500
    1.045

    vs. TOR 25 4 6 0
    0
    1
    4
    2
    0
    4
    0
    0
    .240
    .296
    .360
    .656

    By Stadium AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB HBP SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
    Bank One Ballpark 10 0 1 0
    0
    0
    0
    0
    0
    1
    0
    0
    .100
    .100
    .100
    .200

    Camden Yards 10 1 2 1
    0
    0
    0
    2
    0
    3
    0
    1
    .200
    .333
    .300
    .633

    Wrigley Field 8 0 0 0
    0
    0
    0
    1
    0
    4
    0
    0
    .000
    .111
    .000
    .111

    Jacobs Field 22 4 8 1
    1
    2
    5
    4
    0
    1
    0
    1
    .364
    .444
    .773
    1.217

    Comerica Park 14 3 6 2
    1
    1
    1
    1
    0
    2
    0
    0
    .429
    .467
    .929
    1.396

    Kauffman Stadium 12 3 2 0
    0
    0
    0
    2
    0
    1
    0
    0
    .167
    .286
    .167
    .453

    Dodger Stadium 11 2 2 0
    0
    0
    2
    0
    0
    1
    1
    0
    .182
    .182
    .182
    .364

    Metrodome 25 2 8 1
    0
    0
    1
    1
    0
    4
    0
    0
    .320
    .346
    .360
    .706

    Network Coliseum 7 0 1 1
    0
    0
    1
    1
    0
    1
    0
    0
    .143
    .250
    .286
    .536

    SkyDome 17 4 6 0
    0
    1
    4
    2
    0
    3
    0
    0
    .353
    .421
    .529
    .950

    By Pitcher AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB HBP SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
    vs P 1st time in G 131 15 31 6
    0
    3
    12
    19
    0
    27
    2
    1
    .237
    .331
    .351
    .682

    vs P 2nd time in G 66 11 21 2
    2
    3
    9
    7
    0
    9
    1
    2
    .318
    .384
    .545
    .929

    vs P 3rd time in G 57 6 13 1
    3
    1
    5
    5
    0
    9
    1
    0
    .228
    .290
    .404
    .694

    vs P 4th+ time in G 17 0 4 2
    0
    0
    0
    1
    0
    1
    0
    0
    .235
    .278
    .353
    .631

    vs Groundball 64 10 16 4
    1
    1
    7
    9
    0
    9
    1
    0
    .250
    .342
    .391
    .733

    vs Average G:F 151 16 33 5
    4
    4
    12
    14
    0
    27
    2
    0
    .219
    .285
    .384
    .669

    vs Flyball 56 9 20 2
    0
    2
    7
    9
    0
    10
    1
    3
    .357
    .439
    .500
    .939

    vs Finesse 57 9 18 4
    0
    1
    12
    6
    0
    8
    1
    1
    .316
    .381
    .439
    .820

    vs Average F:P 71 7 16 1
    4
    3
    3
    7
    0
    12
    2
    0
    .225
    .295
    .479
    .774

    vs Power 143 19 35 6
    1
    3
    11
    19
    0
    26
    1
    2
    .245
    .331
    .364
    .695

    By Position AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB HBP SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
    As Second Baseman 263 35 68 11
    5
    7
    25
    30
    0
    45
    4
    3
    .259
    .333
    .418
    .751

    As Third Baseman 3 0 1 0
    0
    0
    1
    2
    0
    0
    0
    0
    .333
    .600
    .333
    .933

    As Pinch Hitter 5 0 0 0
    0
    0
    0
    0
    0
    1
    0
    0
    .000
    .000
    .000
    .000

    By Count AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB HBP SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
    Count 0-0 18 0 3 0
    0
    0
    0
    0
    0
    0
    0
    0
    .167
    .167
    .167
    .334

    Count 0-1 25 0 8 1
    0
    0
    2
    0
    0
    0
    1
    1
    .320
    .320
    .360
    .680

    After 0-1 140 0 36 5
    3
    7
    18
    9
    0
    35
    0
    1
    .257
    .300
    .486
    .786

    Count 0-2 12 0 2 0
    1
    1
    1
    0
    0
    3
    0
    1
    .167
    .167
    .583
    .750

    After 0-2 42 0 7 0
    2
    3
    4
    3
    0
    18
    0
    1
    .167
    .222
    .476
    .698

    Count 1-1 41 0 16 2
    2
    1
    3
    0
    0
    0
    2
    0
    .390
    .381
    .610
    .991

    After 1-1 128 0 36 6
    2
    4
    18
    17
    0
    26
    0
    1
    .281
    .363
    .453
    .816

    Count 1-2 45 0 9 1
    0
    4
    7
    0
    0
    25
    0
    1
    .200
    .200
    .489
    .689

    After 1-2 83 0 15 3
    1
    4
    9
    7
    0
    38
    0
    1
    .181
    .244
    .386
    .630

    Count 1-0 22 0 4 1
    0
    0
    0
    0
    0
    0
    0
    0
    .182
    .182
    .227
    .409

    After 1-0 113 0 30 6
    2
    0
    8
    23
    0
    11
    0
    1
    .265
    .390
    .354
    .744

    Count 2-0 13 0 3 1
    0
    0
    0
    0
    0
    0
    0
    0
    .231
    .231
    .308
    .539

    After 2-0 36 0 11 3
    1
    0
    2
    12
    0
    2
    0
    0
    .306
    .479
    .444
    .923

    Count 2-1 20 0 8 2
    1
    0
    5
    0
    0
    0
    0
    0
    .400
    .400
    .600
    1.000

    After 2-1 51 0 16 2
    1
    1
    11
    15
    0
    4
    0
    0
    .314
    .470
    .451
    .921

    Count 2-2 35 0 7 2
    0
    0
    3
    0
    0
    11
    1
    0
    .200
    .200
    .257
    .457

    After 2-2 56 0 9 2
    1
    0
    4
    16
    0
    14
    0
    0
    .161
    .347
    .232
    .579

    Count 3-2 29 0 4 1
    1
    0
    2
    19
    0
    7
    0
    0
    .138
    .479
    .241
    .720

    After 3-2 29 0 4 1
    1
    0
    2
    19
    0
    7
    0
    0
    .138
    .479
    .241
    .720

    By Batting Order AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB HBP SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
    Batting #1 219 30 60 10
    5
    7
    22
    24
    0
    30
    3
    3
    .274
    .344
    .461
    .805

    Batting #2 44 5 8 1
    0
    0
    2
    7
    0
    14
    1
    0
    .182
    .294
    .205
    .499

    Batting #8 5 0 1 0
    0
    0
    2
    1
    0
    1
    0
    0
    .200
    .333
    .200
    .533

    Batting #9 3 0 0 0
    0
    0
    0
    0
    0
    1
    0
    0
    .000
    .000
    .000
    .000

    By Situation AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB HBP SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
    None On 188 6 47 6
    4
    6
    6
    20
    0
    36
    0
    0
    .250
    .322
    .420
    .742

    Runners On 83 29 22 5
    1
    1
    20
    12
    0
    10
    4
    3
    .265
    .354
    .386
    .740

    Scoring Position 49 22 11 2
    0
    0
    16
    8
    0
    6
    0
    0
    .224
    .328
    .265
    .593

    1B Only 34 7 11 3
    1
    1
    4
    4
    0
    4
    4
    3
    .324
    .395
    .559
    .954

    On Second 22 3 5 1
    0
    0
    5
    4
    0
    2
    0
    0
    .227
    .346
    .273
    .619

    On Third 4 1 1 0
    0
    0
    2
    0
    0
    2
    0
    0
    .250
    .200
    .250
    .450

    First and Second 7 4 1 0
    0
    0
    1
    1
    0
    1
    0
    0
    .143
    .250
    .143
    .393

    First and Third 6 6 1 0
    0
    0
    1
    1
    0
    0
    0
    0
    .167
    .286
    .167
    .453

    Second and Third 3 2 1 0
    0
    0
    1
    1
    0
    0
    0
    0
    .333
    .500
    .333
    .833

    Bases Loaded 7 6 2 1
    0
    0
    6
    1
    0
    1
    0
    0
    .286
    .375
    .429
    .804

    None On/Out 101 1 22 4
    2
    1
    1
    7
    0
    21
    0
    0
    .218
    .269
    .327
    .596

    None On, 1/2 out 87 5 25 2
    2
    5
    5
    13
    0
    15
    0
    0
    .287
    .380
    .529
    .909

    Men On, 2 out 37 8 11 3
    0
    0
    10
    5
    0
    3
    0
    2
    .297
    .381
    .378
    .759

    Man on 3rd, <2 out 6 11 2 0
    0
    0
    4
    1
    0
    1
    0
    0
    .333
    .375
    .333
    .708

    Lead Off Inning 101 0 22 4
    2
    1
    1
    7
    0
    21
    0
    0
    .218
    .269
    .327
    .596

    Scoring Posn, 2 out 29 8 6 1
    0
    0
    9
    5
    0
    3
    0
    0
    .207
    .324
    .241
    .565

    Close and Late 39 7 10 3
    0
    1
    7
    11
    0
    4
    1
    0
    .256
    .412
    .410
    .822


    Glossary
    Groundball - results vs. "groundball pitchers." Groundball pitchers defined as such before the season begins based on the past five year's performance. A groundball/flyball ratio of less than 1.0 classifies one as a groundball pitcher. A ratio of greater than 1.5 classifies one as a flyball pitcher. All others are neutral. Flyball - results vs. flyball pitchers. Average G:F - results vs. a pitcher classifed as neither a groundball or flyball pitcher. Finesse - results vs. "finesse" pitchers. Finesse pitchers defined as such before the season begins based on the past five year's performance. If the pitcher's BB+SO/IP is less than 0.93, he is classified as "finesse." If it's greater than 1.13, he's classified as "power." All others are neutral. Power - results vs. "power" pitchers. Average F:P - results vs. a pitcher classified as neither a finesse or power pitcher. Close And Late - results in the 7th inning or later with the batting team either ahead by one run, tied or with the potential tying run at least on deck.




    ©2003 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

  10. #99
    Registered User
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    Colorado Springs, Colorado
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    678
    Sorry guys, my last post with the ESPN Stats looks terrible. He hits better as RHB than LHB, hits better on the road, turf and day games.

  11. #100
    Member
    Join Date
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    Calgary, Alberta, aka, the most prosperous city in the world.
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    I absolutely love this trade. We now have, for the future, 3 guys who can play SS/2nd. At the end of last year, we had none.

    Ray-Ray did not factor into the equation at the end of last year.

  12. #101
    Member JaxRed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
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    Jacksonville, FL
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    14,668
    Actually that might be the worst formatted post ever !!!!!

    But your other point: "We haven't discussed this trade could be the start or another trade. The Reds take a few days to get to know and rate Jimemez with their other MIs. Then they can package one of their MIs with other players for a starting pitcher. Florida might want one of our MIs if LC is leaving the Marlins in a deal for SP Penny. Who knows Jimemez might be leaving again soon but I doubt it."

    I actually heard this same thing from a media member I know.
    Bud Selig: "I'm the worst commissioner ever"
    Rob Manfred: "Hold my beer"

    https://redsintelligence.com/smforum/index.php

  13. #102
    Ripsnort wheels's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
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    8,684
    And who might this media member be?

    Don't hold out on us JAX!

    This trade kinda perked up my day, and the implosion on the field did nothing to diminish my good feeling.

    And I hope this is the start of some kind of front office movement, be it bringing in guys that can help now, or soembody that can help in the near future while trimming some of the fat.

    I , for one would fine and dandy with retooling and tweaking for next year or the year after. I'm glad they at least threw me a bone today.
    "Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?" ~ Jim Bouton

  14. #103
    All dyslexics must untie!
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    SW Portland, OR
    Posts
    8,602
    I liked the Jiminez idea a lot more before the skeletons started popping out of the proverbial closet

    DJ sounds like a remix of Jose Guillen and Felipe Lopez. Highly touted but lacking the "it" that makes 'em stick as ML regulars. Now, maybe DJ and FL will take the "long road" like Guillen and turn their careers back around...who knows? But this practice of acquiring talented players with questionable characters feels eerily familiar...it reminds me of a local roundball team that tried it and found out that the bad boys don't necessarily produce good results

    (If DJ has to sit around like WMP, will that improve his work ethic? I'm thinking he'll be sulky)

    M2...keep sellin' that "Larkin is gonzo" take. Certainly no one else is whispering that Barry has wanderlust or that anyone else is interested in acquiring him...if a deal comes to pass you'll have beaucoup kudos to go along with your achey-breaky heart
    Never overlook the obvious

  15. #104
    malingered here too long malcontent's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    6,309
    I've never seen him play but I just looked at some pictures of him and Klesko wasn't lying.

    There's absolutely no desire in those dull eyes. Go ahead and look for yourself.

    I think JimBo just got "tooken", as my son likes to say.
    Everything is perfect, but there is a lot of room for improvement. --- Shunryu Suzuki-roshi

  16. #105
    Telephone Sanitizer
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    158
    Originally posted by malcontent
    I've never seen him play but I just looked at some pictures of him and Klesko wasn't lying.

    There's absolutely no desire in those dull eyes. Go ahead and look for yourself.

    I think JimBo just got "tooken", as my son likes to say.
    Let me guess: you're a scout for the Reds.


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