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Thread: Graves signs for three years

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  1. #1
    Member CougarQuest's Avatar
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    That is a big chunk of change for 3 years. If Graves turns out to be the starter that a lot of people in here think he will be, then we got a brillant signing. If he turns out not to be a starter or and average starter, then we have a huge problem. I was very surprised that it was $5M for the first year.
    Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.

  2. #2
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    Personally, I like this move....for most of the reasons stated above.

    Rem

  3. #3
    SSG, Red Army Choir Guacarock's Avatar
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    If the Reds are slightly over budget now, then the 2003 payroll has to be in the $56 million range, not the $60 million cap being bantered around. Removing White or Sullivan would reduce the figure to $53 million. Trading both of them off for prospects would further reduce the total to about $50 million.

    Here's how I arrived at my figures:

    Griffey $8.5 million
    Larkin $7.6 million
    Casey $5.6 million
    Graves $5 million
    Boone $3.7 million
    Dempster $3.25 million
    White $3.1 million
    Sullivan $2.8 million
    Haynes $2.5 million
    Williamson $1.6 million
    Larue $1.25 million
    Stinnett $1.1 million
    Castro $0.8 million
    Chen $0.8 million
    Wilson $0.5 million
    Guillen $0.5 million
    One additional pitcher (Rijo?, Heredia?) at $0.5 million
    Nine additional players averaging between $0.3-0.5 million apiece (Kearns, Dunn, Taylor, Guillen/Mateo, Larson, Branyan, Lopez/Dawkins, Reitsma, Riedling)
    Reds' residual payment to cover the Dessens' contract $0.3 million
    Payments to deferred pools for Larkin,Griffey plus reserves to cover potential contractual bonuses $2.5 million
    Contingency to pay minor leaguers filling in for contract players on the DL or called up in September $1 million

    The only way that the Reds could be pushing $60 million for 2003 is if the team is preparing to offer long-term contracts to Dunn, Kearns or both of them, laying out some extra scratch this coming season in return for concessions down the line. Might be in the offing -- we'll see. But if not, then the $60 million cap is a chimera, or else Jimbo is holding back a few million in case it's needed for the stretch run.

    My best educated guess. The Reds plan to spend $55-56 million this opening season at GAB, but can bump up the figure just a shade, to $60 million tops, if attendance and the heat of competition warrants it.

    I can't see the team moving both the White and Sullivan contracts this off-season, but probably one of them's a goner. White is the most likely to go, based on his 2002 performance and our stockpiling of southpaws like Chen, Heredia, Mercker and Anderson. But we also have a few candidates waiting in the wings to replace Sullivan (Riedling, Reitsma, Hudson, Pineda, et. al.), so he could be sacrificed at the altar first depending on which suitors come calling.

    Even with the abrupt downward shift we've seen this winter in salaries for relievers, either White or Sullivan can be dealt, especially if one of them comes on like gangbusters this spring. Somehow, somewhere, a well-heeled team will have miscalculated its available talent only to belatedly realize it's a premium setup man short of contending.

    Just hope it's not the Reds who are caught in that crunch. I don't really mind us being a feeder team for relievers or dealing from a position of strength to satisfy other more glaring needs. Shifting resources from the bullpen to the starting corps is a gamble, but it's a calculated gamble we're probably overdue in taking.

  4. #4
    Cruisin' for trouble
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    I STILL think that Graves has the stuff to be an effective starter. Problem is, I don't think Danny believes it. His half-hearted attempt at developing a windup is evidence. Reminds me of the kid in Bad News Bears II (okay, yeah, I saw it) who couldn't figure out who he wanted to emulate.

  5. #5
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    It sounds like Graves thought the windup wouldn't be a big deal and waited for ST to work on it. That mistake may have been costly. However, IIRC, Danny's pitching was so bad, he never had a chance to work on the windup (runners constantly on).

    What I remember most about Danny's starts is that his pitches were consistently up in the zone. THAT (and the resistance to starting) proved to be Danny's undoing.

    I'm hoping that Danny and the Reds now understand how much work needs to be invested in Danny to make the starting experiment work. It's easy to throw dollars at a problem expecting a fix - now they have to have the effort. IMO, Danny really screwed up. Hopefully, he will have the motivation not to look so bad given the opportunity this year.

  6. #6
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    Danny, hello, my name is Dan O'Brien, the new GM. Listen, I heard about the problems that you had pitching last year. I also understand that you signed a starter's contract. Okay, so here's the deal - work on the windup and keeping the pitches down or I'll send you to Detroit for a paperweight and you can room with Dmitri.

    Look forward to seeing that windup in ST, Danny.

    Oh, and, get your hair cut.

  7. #7
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    I don't know if he didn't try to do his best, but I think he underestimated how difficult it would be to develop a good windup. It's obvious that he became frustrated early and never developed the confidence in his ability to start last year.

    That was a helluva cop out to ask out of the rotation, considering that the Reds were going nowhere. He should have gone back to working on the windup.

  8. #8
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    This move took a lot of guts. Not sure I would have done it if I was them. But Graves is showing signs of making it look like pure genius.

    He could be a real bargain by the end of this deal.

  9. #9
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    Originally posted by Raisor
    I think I'll wait until we find out how much money they gave him before I decide if I like it.

    PSR
    So, lets start a Redszone pool.

    I'll take $17M.
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  10. #10
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    More details on Danny's contract from Tony Jackson.

    Graves deal includes limited no-trade clause
    By Tony Jackson
    Post staff reporter

    The Reds called a news conference Monday to announce the signing of Danny Graves, an announcement that considering it had been made Friday without a news conference was about as fresh as whatever is under that mysterious foil wrapper in your refrigerator.
    While not part of the announcement, some details of the contract have surfaced beyond the widely reported salaries of $5 million in 2003, $6 million in 2004 and $6.25 million in 2005. The deal contains a limited no-trade clause in which Graves can "blacklist" up to four teams to which he doesn't want to be traded. If he is traded, an escalator clause would add $500,000 to his salary that year and any subsequent years remaining on the contract.

    Another escalator clause based on innings pitched would apply anywhere from $100,000 to $400,000, in $100,000 increments, to the buyout of the contract's mutual option for 2006. Graves was in his final winter of arbitration eligibility and could have become a free agent after the 2003 season if he hadn't signed the three-year, $17.25 million deal.

    In fact, he had no interest in becoming anything of the kind, which clearly had something to do with the fact this winter's free-agent market is the softest in years.

    "There were so many factors that went into our thought process, and that would be one of them," said Alan Nero, one of Graves' agents. "There was also the idea that he is becoming a starting pitcher, and there is some risk involved in that as well. It just got to the point where this made so much sense for everyone. Danny has been very clear from the get-go that he wants to stay in Cincinnati. When your client has those feelings, you ought to get something done."

    Graves is a virtual lock for the rotation, where he will join Paul Wilson, Jimmy Haynes, Ryan Dempster and whoever emerges from a spring training free-for-all for the fifth spot.
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  11. #11
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    Cincinnati Reds - Agreed to terms on a three-year contract with a mutual option for 2006 with pitcher Danny Graves.
    "People that frequent Internet forums resemble the cast of One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest!" - C. J. Cregg, The West Wing

  12. #12
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    CINCINNATI - Cincinnati Reds general manager Jim Bowden today agreed to terms with RHP Danny Graves on a 3-year contract through the 2005 season, plus a mutual option for 2006. Terms of the deal were not disclosed.

    Graves was eligible for salary arbitration and would have been a free agent following the 2003 season.

    "Danny is at the core of the good, young group of players we have under control the first few years of Great American Ball Park," Bowden said, "These players are going to provide our fans with an exciting brand of baseball."

    Graves, 29, last season for the Reds went 7-3 with a 3.19 ERA and a team-high 32 saves in 68 games. He made his first 64 apps in relief, then finished the season in the rotation and went 1-0 with a 1.89 ERA in 4 starts. Graves is expected to fill a spot in the front of the Reds' starting rotation in 2003.

    An All-Star in 2000, Graves has contributed to 117 of the Reds' 229 victories the last 3 seasons (51 percent). His 129 career saves is a club record for a righthander, and his 121 saves the last 4 years is the eighth-highest total in the Major Leagues. In the last 6 seasons, Graves has thrown 469.2 innings in relief, third-highest total in baseball.

    Bowden acquired Graves from the Indians on July 31, 1997 as part of a 6-player deal in which LHP John Smiley was sent to Cleveland.

    Graves' contract will be finalized following a physical examination by Reds medical director Dr. Timothy Kremchek, scheduled for 11 a.m. on Monday. The Reds formally will announce the signing at a 4:30 p.m. press conference on Monday at the Great American Ball Park administration building. Graves will not be available to the media until that Monday press conference.
    "People that frequent Internet forums resemble the cast of One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest!" - C. J. Cregg, The West Wing

  13. #13
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    Graves signs for three years

    per MLB radio.
    "People that frequent Internet forums resemble the cast of One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest!" - C. J. Cregg, The West Wing

  14. #14
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    This I like. The Reds have just, in the past week, given pretty good money to STARTING PITCHERS. Seems like somebody is finally getting the idea as to where you build a win from.
    The Reds will be spending about 20% of the '03 payroll on starting pitching. How long has it been since that happened? Rijo, Browning & Jackson?
    "People that frequent Internet forums resemble the cast of One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest!" - C. J. Cregg, The West Wing

  15. #15
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    I got $18M excluding the option year
    The Rally Onion wants 150 fans before Opening Day.

    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Rally-...24872650873160


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