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Thread: Graves signs for three years

  1. #46
    Member paulrichjr's Avatar
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    Wouldn't it be nice if he had even been average....

    I know hindsight is 20/20 but it sure is neat to look back and see what we wrote at that time.... It makes you wonder what next year will bring....

    I am now looking at the posts from October 2004 and WOW the Reds have Pete Rose as the manager and they just won the World Series...Griffey played 150 games and hit 45 home runs... Dunn hit 50 and only struck out 175 times.... Graves saved 40 games.... Claussen is the Rookie of the Year...Kearns believe it or not is the MVP with 200 hits and 35 home runs... and finally to prove that I am a total idiot... Jimmy Haynes won 15 games again.
    Tim McCarver: Baseball Quotes
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  3. #47
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Ugh! I didn't like seeing again what I wrote. But this is a good example of why we should appreciate how tough it is for a GM to make the right call when handing out multi year contracts. Go back to the 50s and before when all they did was one year contracts

  4. #48
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    Originally posted by Raisor
    Being the Reds' "ace" and being a legit major league "ace" is probably two different things.


    PSR
    I agree. Every team has a #1 starter. But there are only a few "aces" in baseball- and some teams like the Diamondbacks and the Cubs have 2.

  5. #49
    Puffy's Daddy Red Leader's Avatar
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    Originally posted by traderumor
    Ugh! I didn't like seeing again what I wrote. But this is a good example of why we should appreciate how tough it is for a GM to make the right call when handing out multi year contracts. Go back to the 50s and before when all they did was one year contracts
    I agree, traderumor. I was skeptical of the Graves signing back when it happened and it turned out I was correct in my thinking. The problem is that if this deal wasn't done and Graves signed a 1 year contract and then went 18-6 with a 3.55 ERA or so, this contract would have looked pretty nice. At the time that this contract was signed if you would have put 2 lines on a board and told someone that one of these was Graves' actual line for 2003, I would bet you that the majority would have still taken this contract and picked line #2 as what they thought was his actual line (back when the contract was signed)

    2003: 4-15 5.33 ERA

    2003: 14-5 3.55 ERA
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  6. #50
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    I still like Graves, and think he can be effective, wherever he is used. Last season was a tough one to be a starting pitcher on the Reds. Absolutely no confidence in the "minor league" lineup getting you any runs. I won't be the least bit dissapointed if Danny Graves is a Cincinnati Red this season. I still like what he brings to the ballclub.

  7. #51
    "Let's Roll" TeamBoone's Avatar
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    Well put, Randy. But I think we're in the minority.
    "Enjoy this Reds fans, you are watching a legend grow up before your very eyes" ... DoogMinAmo on Adam Dunn

  8. #52
    Ripsnort wheels's Avatar
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    You know what? That "Minor league lineup" was what was keeping this club alive in the early goings.

    That pitching staff was abysmal for the entire first half of the season.
    "We know we're better than this, but we can't prove it." - Tony Gwynn

  9. #53
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Yeah, that "minor league lineup" was great. Are you really Carl Lindner?

  10. #54
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    I can see paying an effective starter/rotation guy 6 Mil/year... but not a BP guy.

    IMO....guys like Danny Graves are a dime a dozen in MLB (and I'm referring to BP guys and closers).

    We have always been able to find good closers, going back to the days of the Nasty Boys and forward.

    I'm one who has always believed that the closer role was over-rated.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  11. #55
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    Originally posted by TeamBoone
    Well put, Randy. But I think we're in the minority.
    I'm with you two. The problem is Graves never believed he could start and was almost looking to fail. I doubt Graves could mentally commit to being a starter but if he did I think that'd be the best role for him.

  12. #56
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Originally posted by GAC
    I can see paying an effective starter/rotation guy 6 Mil/year... but not a BP guy.

    IMO....guys like Danny Graves are a dime a dozen in MLB (and I'm referring to BP guys and closers).

    We have always been able to find good closers, going back to the days of the Nasty Boys and forward.

    I'm one who has always believed that the closer role was over-rated.
    And I thought you weren't a SABR guy.
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  13. #57
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    From what I surmise, Graves now "didn't" want to start, didn't have his heart in it. Couldn't find the time to work on a windup.

    But somehow was able to fill out that automatic deposit paperwork he got from HR.

    Graves as a starter averaged 2 less K's per 9 than he did as a reliever and he gave up a HR every 5 innings (every 12 as reliever)

    In the house of cards built by Bowden (iffy defense, high BR/low K pitching staff) Graves season was as dangerous and damaging as Marcias bracelet was that fateful evening before the green stamps store closed.

  14. #58
    "Let's Roll" TeamBoone's Avatar
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    Originally posted by westofyou
    From what I surmise, Graves now "didn't" want to start, didn't have his heart in it. Couldn't find the time to work on a windup.

    But somehow was able to fill out that automatic deposit paperwork he got from HR.
    As you said, this is an assumption on someone's part.... Danny never said it (at least not publically) and no one knows what on in his head. Therefore, I think this is a very unfair statement.
    "Enjoy this Reds fans, you are watching a legend grow up before your very eyes" ... DoogMinAmo on Adam Dunn

  15. #59
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    As you said, this is an assumption on someone's part.... Danny never said it (at least not publically) and no one knows what on in his head. Therefore, I think this is a very unfair statement.
    Reds.MLB.com's Chris Haft reports Cincinnati Reds P Danny Graves has been sent back to the bullpen after struggling as a starter. "I'm extremely excited," said Graves. "I'm excited that my arm's not going to hurt any more. It (starting) is something that's just not for me."

    http://kffl.com/player/5016/mlb?PHPSESSID=a

    Sunday, March 23, 2003

    http://reds.enquirer.com/2003/03/23/wwwred2a23.html

    Graves worked exclusively from the stretch Saturday. He has struggled to get comfortable with the windup in his first four starts.

    "I have to get comfortable," he said. "My job is to get guys out. My job is not to worry about the windup."

    It's hard to argue with the results. The windup is supposed to give pitchers added velocity. But Graves has thrown up to 93 mph from the stretch.

  16. #60
    Cruisin' for trouble
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    It sounds like Graves thought the windup wouldn't be a big deal and waited for ST to work on it. That mistake may have been costly. However, IIRC, Danny's pitching was so bad, he never had a chance to work on the windup (runners constantly on).

    What I remember most about Danny's starts is that his pitches were consistently up in the zone. THAT (and the resistance to starting) proved to be Danny's undoing.

    I'm hoping that Danny and the Reds now understand how much work needs to be invested in Danny to make the starting experiment work. It's easy to throw dollars at a problem expecting a fix - now they have to have the effort. IMO, Danny really screwed up. Hopefully, he will have the motivation not to look so bad given the opportunity this year.


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