Sean Casey rumored in 3 way trade discussion

[RollyInRaleigh]

Kevin Jarvis, huh? Haven't we seen enough of him, already? Although it might free up some pocket change for Lindner and Co., that trade would be a tough sell for 2004. Kevin Jarvis. Now there's a player that will put some fannies in the seats. Matter of fact, the Reds PR department could probably build their whole 2004 marketing campaign around him. "Come see the "re-runs." It's probably the only "runs" you'll see this season.

[gm]

Sell Casey low to buy Jarvis high? The desperation to dump Sean is reaching epic proportions

[Chip R]

Originally posted by RANDY IN CHAR NC
Kevin Jarvis, huh? Haven't we seen enough of him, already? Although it might free up some pocket change for Lindner and Co., that trade would be a tough sell for 2004. Kevin Jarvis. Now there's a player that will put some fannies in the seats. Matter of fact, the Reds PR department could probably build their whole 2004 marketing campaign around him. "Come see the "re-runs." It's probably the only "runs" you'll see this season.

Yep. Jarvis for Casey would look like a joke to a lot of Reds fans. Not only is Jarvis a former Red who was unsuccessful in his time here he also would look like a retread to fans too. I'm not saying it's a bad deal but the Reds are going to have some 'splaining to do to the fans if they traded Casey for Jarvis.

[Ravenlord]

Originally posted by gm
Sell Casey low to buy Jarvis high? The desperation to dump Sean is reaching epic proportions

yep. we got Casey low...and want to sell him now for even less. let him play next season...if he hits 300 or so and OPS's 750-850 he should be able to be moved for a pretty good deal to someone like Montreal or Detroit...or some other "old school" team. taht's why Graves needs to close this year. i think if he can be 3rd in saves in the NL behind Smoltz and Gagne, we can trade him to a team in contention who wants a closer.

[traderumor]

RIL,

They tried WMP at 1B in ST, but he did not play one inning there during the regular season, so I don't know if that is an option. Dunn is only a bad first baseman, not horrible, and just like in the OF, comes up with the highlight reel play occasionally while booting two routine balls. I am simply evaluating this trade as equivalent to a salary dump if Jarvis is the return. Yes, we get out from the LTC of Casey, but still dump $4.5M into the hopper next year for Jarvis, if I'm getting my numbers straight. This smells like a deal that sophisticated fans won't gripe about when it goes down in the off-season, but when balls start flying into the Ohio River during Jarvis' Batting Practice sessions, and our 1B are hitting a combined .205 with 300 Ks between them, the deal won't seem to make so much sense.

[RollyInRaleigh]

I don't like that deal. It would be different if I really thought that the Reds would try to improve the team with the savings, but I'm sure it would get mixed in with the spin that "the fans haven't supported the team as well as we thought they would when we opened the new ballpark, and we have no choice but to lower the payroll to offset our losses." I'm afraid it would just make it easier for them to justify putting inferior talent on the field. I hope O'Brien has a magic wand and a silver tongue because that's exactly what it's going to take to justify moves like that one to the paying public, and then make it work.

[pedro]

Originally posted by Ravenlord
yep. we got Casey low...and want to sell him now for even less. let him play next season...if he hits 300 or so and OPS's 750-850 he should be able to be moved for a pretty good deal to someone like Montreal or Detroit...or some other "old school" team. taht's why Graves needs to close this year. i think if he can be 3rd in saves in the NL behind Smoltz and Gagne, we can trade him to a team in contention who wants a closer.

i agree RL. I think Casey will have a better year in 2004 and Jarvis is just useless.

[Johnny Footstool]

I think Casey will have a better year in 2004

Based on his current career trends, I would be very surprised if that happens.

[Ravenlord]

Originally posted by Johnny Footstool
Based on his current career trends, I would be very surprised if that happens.

as do i...but his SLG should go up about 30 points this year. if it doesn't, expect this to be Casey's last contract expecting him to be a starter.

[M2]

Probably the hardest thing to justify to fans is that it isn't a pure giveaway. If it were Casey for two non-descript minor leaguers, then you'd be able to point to the $6.8 million the team had to chase other talent.

If it's Casey for Jarvis with the savings deferred largely until 2005, then it is a harder sell. I'd still do it and I'd feel no compunction to hand Jarvis a job on the team. If you can get out from under two years of Casey's contract, it's that much sooner you can point the club in the right direction.

Randy, I can see where the Reds might not spend the $2 million or so they'd save in 2004 and, if fans stay away in droves next year, never spend a dime of that PayFlex in 2005. It's the danger of trusting the current ownership/management. That said, I don't see where we have a choice in the matter. Hopefully they understand that giving away Casey and having nothing to show for it after two years would be like sticking your head into a noose.

[red-in-la]

traderumor, Dunn is a young, athletic, highly coordinated man with both speed and a good arm. Casey is NONE of these.

Dunn is not a bad 1B. I am not sure where you get this from. He is certainly MORE capable of learning to become a fine 1B than Casey ever dreamed of.

Dunn is also inexpensive.

Maybe WMP cannot be played at 1B.....I dunno. But a place needs to be made for him to play everyday.

What makes Casey MOST unacceptable to me is the fact that the Reds have lost 2 excellent outfielders in the past two years just so that Casey and his great smile and anemic production would have a place to play.

Now we have the prospect of WMP and maybe even Smitherman wilting on the vine so that we can endure 3 more years of a slow singles hitter who is a mediocre 1B at best.

I would make this trade then RELEASE Jarvis of that is what it took. At its best, I can see Jarvis fulfilling the role that Jim Brower did so capably for a year or so. At worst, he is just another Jimmy Haynes....and in a year he is gone.

When you have Jimbo's penchant for signing really BAD long term contracts, you are going to have to make hurtful sacrifices somewhere along the line.

[Kc61]

Now that would send a good message to Reds fans: the return of Kevin Jarvis.

It is a bad trade. Selling Casey low and buying Jarvis high (or at least overpaid).

Only way to justify it is:

1. Turn around and trade Jarvis immediately.

2. Get a good prospect in the deal (either the first deal or the retrade).

3. Use the pay differential to sign a good free agent, this year.

Don't see the Reds dumping Casey for nothing; he is too popular.

[Ravenlord]

Originally posted by Kc61
1. Turn around and trade Jarvis immediately.

2. Get a good prospect in the deal.

3. Use the pay differential to sign a good free agent, this year.

and almost no chance of any of those happening.

[M2]

I've always wondered if JimBo didn't have an ulterior motive in the Casey signing.

Maybe he figured that what he was doing was booking himself close to $7 million a year with Sean Casey as the placeholder. Bowden surely had confidence in his ability to make a trade. Obviously the player market headed south and now it's not so easy to move Casey, but I can see where JimBo might have been as interested in preserving his player budget as he was in keeping Sean Casey.

[traderumor]

RIL,

Where I get that Dunn is a bad 1B (from an everyday perspective like you are promoting) is watching him play there. He is ok for a fill in, but it would scare the bejeebies out of me to see him over there everyday. I agree with the athleticism, but I think you are making Casey into a bigger problem with our team than he really is. The biggest baggage he brings with him is the size of his contract, but don't make him out to be a worse ballplayer than he is simply because you think we are paying him too much. I agree that his value is less than his contract in the Reds world, but it may not be so in another team's budget. Heck, out where you are in Dodgerland, he'd be a possible cleanup hitter

He is worth more than the Kevin Jarvis' of this world and we should release him (which ain't gonna happen) or trade him for prospects before we exchange him for some piece of garbage like Jarvis in the name of "payroll flexibility." That's why I said if we can wait and hope that a trade deadline deal could move him this year, that would be optimal. Then, we could give Adam some more significant time at 1B before handing him the responsibility. But I'd hate to see us just give him away. I know it's possible because it's a Bowden contract. I just don't agree with the logic that's being used for such moves.