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Thread: 9/22 - Larkin News Conference at 7 PM

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  1. #1
    Dunnilicious creek14's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Team Clark
    Typical, classless John Allen.
    I can't stand JA, but I disagree, TCII.

    The Reds had to make a preemptive strike.

    Look at the crap Barry's agent is spewing about a "respectable offer". If he had been given a chance to say those things without the fans knowing what the Reds offered, the masses would have been livid with the Reds.

    Allen didnít slam Barry. Barryís agent is slamming the Reds. Someone is classless. This time (and maybe only this time) it isnít John Allen.
    Will trade this space for a #1 starter.

  2. #2
    Score Early, Score Often gonelong's Avatar
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    Its not suprising that Larkin turned it down. I think Barry is going to get some backlash and it will suprise him.

    I didn't mind him getting the 3yr/$27M deal, I considered it backpay.

    Talk about your "out with a whimper" ...

    GL

  3. #3
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    I think John Allen did the right thing. Calling it a PR nightmare may be technically true, but this was one nightmare that HAD to happen. I'm surprised Lindner didn't cave in like he did last time.

    What if a new GM comes in and expresses interest in bringing Barry back at a SLIGHTLY higher rate (say $700K-$800K) and can talk Larkin into accepting that salary as a utility player? My thinking is that the Reds are trying to clean up all the loose threads before a new GM is named, BUT a new GM needs to opportunity to put together a team at a decent payroll. He may decide Barry would make a nice utility player.

    I just think we're making a lot of assumptions based on the opening moves in a financial chess game. Allen has spoken. Larkin is appealing to the sentimental fans. It's one big negotiation done in a public forum.
    Opinions are like belly buttons. Everybody has one, and they don't want someone else's shoved into their face.

  4. #4
    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Originally posted by JaxRed
    Can't make up my mind what it's going to be. Could be retirement, could be contract for next year, could be acknowledgement that he wants more than Reds will pay.

    I'll bet retirement. Why would he need a press conference if he's coming back?
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    ~ Mark Twain

  5. #5
    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Originally posted by alloverjr
    Good move by the Reds. They offered Larkin a contract to play one more year at about what most people on this board were saying was fair (I'm assuming about $750k after incentives). He rejected, it's time to move on. While I would have liked the new GM to make this decision instead of Allen, this does give them the opportunity to have a "Barry Larkin Day" if he wants it this year.

    I don't blame Allen for bringing this public. Everyone wanted to know what the status was. Now we know. If it had waited until after the season, or was kept quiet, there would have been some that would have complained that they didn't have the opportunity to see Larkin in uniform one last time.

    Good luck on a contract next season Barry. I just think you've overestimated your value in a soft market.

    I completely agree.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    ~ Mark Twain

  6. #6
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    I'm on record here as saying, on many 'Larkin Next Year?' threads, that I (personally) would go up to $1M to bring Barry back. Most on here felt that I was far to generous. Well, basicly, that's what the Reds offered Barry (the opportunity to earn $1M) and the Reds get ripped for it!?! Geez, short memory on this board!

    The Reds offer was fair, IMO. It gave Barry a way to earn his salary and go out with class with his home town team. Barry is the disappointment here, from my point of view.

    I agree that it will hurt his HOF chances.

    I agree this is a mirror image of the car-wreck that was the Ozzie Smith snit.

    I think that Barry may find himself 'retired' by opening day ala Davy Conception and his 'farewell tour' with the Angels Spring Training squad.

    Personally, I'm glad that John Allen did the dirty work and brought this out into the open. Hell, everyone and his pig hates Allen so why put this burden on a new GM's shoulders. Thanks for taking the hit, John.

    At least this issue is taken care of----only about 45 more to go. We've got six months till opening day, let's get a move on....

    Rem

  7. #7
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    Let's say that you're a middle-market 'sports bar' that was hot in the '90's. And, you've got a bar tender that was a big fav back then 'cause he could do all those 'behind the back glass flips' and he could quote all the latest stats and he could work the remote on all 8 TVs at the same time.

    But, now 'Larry' drops a glass or two. He doesn't really follow the stats anymore. The remote and the Tivo are beyond him now. Plus, he calls in sick more and more.

    You take Larry aside and say, "Maybe it's time to retire Larry." But Larry doesn't want to go. "All those years of faithful service", he says. "All those years of stand up play when the crowd didn't want to hear 'last call' ", he says. "All those years of working for minimum wage", he says. "All those years of breaking in all those new bartenders that we knew were never going to make it", he says.

    "Larry, I really, really appreciate all you've done for the folks here", you say. "But you don't have 'it' anymore. And, I really want you to go out in style. So, how about you work the lunch shift 3 days a week. I'll guarantee ya' more than minimum wage. Plus, if you perform well, you'll double your wages in tips! What do ya' say, big guy. We'll even have a 'Love ya' Larry Night' for ya. It'll be great! And, when you're done with that floor gig, we'll make ya' a part of the management."

    Yep. Definately classless on the part of that bar owner.

    Rem
    Last edited by remdog; 09-23-2003 at 12:21 AM.

  8. #8
    Waiting for a tour/album KittyDuran's Avatar
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    discussing specific dollar amounts.
    but that's what most fans want to know... remember the reputation of this ballclub...:evilgrin:
    2014 Reds record when I'm attending: 17-16
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    "We want to be the band to dance to when the bomb drops." - Simon Le Bon of Duran Duran

  9. #9
    Waiting for a tour/album KittyDuran's Avatar
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    But Larkin's done for the season, so we won't have the opportunity to see him play in a Cincinnati uniform again.
    But he has been in uniform and in the dugout while on the DL...
    2014 Reds record when I'm attending: 17-16
    2014 Dragons record when I'm attending: 2-1
    "We want to be the band to dance to when the bomb drops." - Simon Le Bon of Duran Duran

  10. #10
    Member TeamCasey's Avatar
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    John Allen is doing it, not Barry. It's coming on now.
    Pots and Kettles

  11. #11
    Member TeamCasey's Avatar
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    He didn't say below.
    Pots and Kettles

  12. #12
    Member TeamCasey's Avatar
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    It's a swing and a miss


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Club's last offer not sufficient for captain

    By John Fay
    The Cincinnati Enquirer


    PHOTO GALLERY

    18 Larkin photos
    In the end, it was about the injuries. When the Reds were deciding what to do about 18-year shortstop Barry Larkin, his medical history played a key role in formulating an offer.

    "One of our problems this year has been the number of players on the disabled list," Reds chief operating officer John Allen said Monday. "Barry has been on the DL three times himself."

    That's why the Reds were willing to offer Larkin a base salary of only $500,000. He would have been able to earn $500,000 more in incentives for plate appearances and games played.

    Larkin rejected the Reds' offer first Saturday, then again Monday after a face-to-face meeting with Allen. Larkin also spoke to chief executive officer Carl Lindner on Monday. The offer wasn't going to change.

    "I was told that in business, if you don't produce, you get taken off the shelf," Larkin said, refusing to specify who said that. "They said some pretty matter-of-fact things today that I won't repeat. I'm just very disappointed."

    Larkin said he thinks he can be a productive player and plans to play next year. He saw a hand specialist Monday. And though he expects to be 100 percent healthy for next season, he was advised not to play anymore this season.

    Larkin acknowledged that $500,000 is a lot of money (the major-league minimum is $300,000). But, he said, it was presented as a take-it-or-leave-it offer. He would not say what he thought a fair offer would have been.

    "The reason that the amount of money that they offered me was unacceptable is because of the principle," Larkin said. "I was surely not looking to break the bank. But there are other players out there that have been loyal to franchises and that have done some things in their careers that I think (were) respected by the franchises. This contract shows me the door, basically."

    Larkin said he wanted to finish his career in Cincinnati.

    "I think one of the things that bothers me most is the fact that a guy who's not from Cincinnati appears to be empowered to make this decision," he said. "I talked to Carl a couple of days ago to see where his head was, and he told me to call John."

    Allen said the Reds had internal discussions about Larkin's future before the All-Star break when Jim Bowden was still general manager.

    Larkin made it clear that he wanted to play one more season. Then he hoped to work in the front office.


    Click to view Acrobat PDF file (496k) showing statistics and milestones from Barry's career with the Reds.
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    "I think John wants to run things," Larkin said. "I don't truly believe that he felt there was a (power) struggle between him and me, because I'm only a baseball player. But I did have aspirations of ... playing one more year in Cincinnati, then going up in the front office and helping the organization - because we definitely need help."

    The choice to offer Larkin a contract set at a maximum of $1 million was clearly a baseball decision.

    Allen usually deferred such decisions to the general manager, but the Reds have been without one since Bowden was fired July 28.

    Allen said he did not consider waiting until a GM was hired, and added Larkin eventually could return to the team in some capacity.

    The Reds finish their regular season Sunday at Great American Ball Park. They offered to hold an appreciation day for Larkin, but he declined.

    "If I were retiring, I would absolutely enjoy it," he said of a Barry Larkin Day. "I'm not retiring. I think the fans in Cincinnati deserve it. And I would love to give it to them, and one day I will - if they want to give it to me."

    Since Larkin signed a three-year, $27 million contract extension in July 2000, he has been on the disabled list four times and has dealt with other nagging injuries. He averaged only 86 games a year in that span.

    In those three years, Larkin has a total of nine home runs, 82 RBI and 18 stolen bases. In his MVP year of 1995, he hit 17 home runs, drove in 66 runs and stole 51 bases.

    Larkin's departure means the Reds will have a new everyday shortstop for the first time since he took over for Dave Concepcion in 1987. Concepcion had held the spot from 1972 until Larkin replaced him.

    His permanent replacement will be one of the most important calls the new general manager makes.
    Pots and Kettles

  13. #13
    Member TeamCasey's Avatar
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    Captain's role was discussed


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    By Michael Perry
    The Cincinnati Enquirer


    PHOTO GALLERY

    18 Larkin photos
    This might give a glimpse into the relationship between Reds shortstop Barry Larkin and Reds chief operating officer John Allen.

    When Allen called Larkin's agent, Eric Goldschmidt, to talk about a new contract, he asked whether Larkin needed to remain team captain.

    The shortstop said he asked Allen about that Monday when the two met. Allen said it was former general manager Jim Bowden who named Larkin captain, and Allen said he never really understood what that meant.

    "He asked what was the role of the captain, and I told him some of the things that I have to go through," Larkin said.

    "I think when Jim left, John became empowered, and I think this is a product of John Allen being in power."




    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Pots and Kettles

  14. #14
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    I've got no problem with the money issue here.

    What I do have a problem with is the captain thing. You don't take away the Wishbone C until a guy leaves the team, period. That is the bush league part of this. If he comes back next year, he should still have been a captain, no question.

    If it is about the money, screw Barry and his agent.

    If it is about the C, I'm with them.

  15. #15
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    Good move by the Reds to offer Barry a more-than-fair contract.

    Good move by Allen not to leave it to be one of the first acts of the next GM.

    The Reds have paid Barry over $70 million dollars during his playing career. They owe him nothing more than to give him a day and to retire his number.
    "People that frequent Internet forums resemble the cast of One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest!" - C. J. Cregg, The West Wing


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