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Thread: 9/22 - Larkin News Conference at 7 PM

  1. #91
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    I think John Allen did the right thing. Calling it a PR nightmare may be technically true, but this was one nightmare that HAD to happen. I'm surprised Lindner didn't cave in like he did last time.

    What if a new GM comes in and expresses interest in bringing Barry back at a SLIGHTLY higher rate (say $700K-$800K) and can talk Larkin into accepting that salary as a utility player? My thinking is that the Reds are trying to clean up all the loose threads before a new GM is named, BUT a new GM needs to opportunity to put together a team at a decent payroll. He may decide Barry would make a nice utility player.

    I just think we're making a lot of assumptions based on the opening moves in a financial chess game. Allen has spoken. Larkin is appealing to the sentimental fans. It's one big negotiation done in a public forum.
    Opinions are like belly buttons. Everybody has one, and they don't want someone else's shoved into their face.

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  3. #92
    Member TeamCasey's Avatar
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    Captain's role was discussed


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    By Michael Perry
    The Cincinnati Enquirer


    PHOTO GALLERY

    18 Larkin photos
    This might give a glimpse into the relationship between Reds shortstop Barry Larkin and Reds chief operating officer John Allen.

    When Allen called Larkin's agent, Eric Goldschmidt, to talk about a new contract, he asked whether Larkin needed to remain team captain.

    The shortstop said he asked Allen about that Monday when the two met. Allen said it was former general manager Jim Bowden who named Larkin captain, and Allen said he never really understood what that meant.

    "He asked what was the role of the captain, and I told him some of the things that I have to go through," Larkin said.

    "I think when Jim left, John became empowered, and I think this is a product of John Allen being in power."




    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Pots and Kettles

  4. #93
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    After reading all these posts, I have come to these conclusions:

    1. John Allen isn't the bad guy in this. Actually he is the one taking the hit for what everyone has been saying about Larkin the past three years....his time has gone by.

    2. If this is such a public relations nightmare, how would you handle it especially when you're captain refuses to retire (when he knows he can't play everyday) and another bloated contract to Larkin would hinder this ballclub next season?

    3. Would you have been happy if Barry Larkin was making 1.5 to 2 million next season while just playing in an utility role?

    4. Since Larkin signed that extension, the Reds haven't won a thing. With his declining performance in that time span, the club has had no financial room to improve other areas of the ballclub. As much as an icon Larkin is, who is more important....Larkin or the Reds?

    5. Finally, with Larkin not coming back next season, could Junior and his salary be next on the hit list? It is obvious the Reds want to give the new GM a clean slate. Moving Junior would be another step in that direction.
    If you think small, you'll go nowhere in life.

  5. #94
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    I can't find great fault with what the Reds did.

    The offer they gave Larkin fit into their financial parameters, gave Barry a chance to come back, fans to see Barry one more time and give him a proper send off, etc.

    I do think though the Reds handled it in a clumsy way. I think they should have been talking to Goldschmidt over the past few weeks setting the stage for this offer, feeling out what Barry wanted, what could and could not be negotiated, etc. Lots more finesse could have been used (finesse and Reds front office are an oxymoron of sorts) to ease the blow to Barry's ego and let him get over thge shock before responding.

    And, I think Barry didn't handle it very well either. Given he was underpaid early in his career and then overpaid later, I think the $$$ scales have balanced out over the course of his career. I can't imagine he honestly feels that he'll get a better offer.

    But, if he wasn't happy with the offer, it would have created a bad situation to come back.

    I will really hate to see Barry go to Tampa Bay or wherever, spend one last year hanging on, and then retiring.

    The Reds will have a day for him, but it will be in 2006 or later. Kind of like when the Reds retired Frank Robinson's number in 1998. A good move, but waaaay overdue and won't feel truly coupled with his career.

    Somehow, I feel like the Reds are being portrayed as the bad guys and I don't think it was necessary.

  6. #95
    C-A-T-S CATS! CATS! CATS! WVRed's Avatar
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    Originally posted by MikeS21
    I think John Allen did the right thing. Calling it a PR nightmare may be technically true, but this was one nightmare that HAD to happen. I'm surprised Lindner didn't cave in like he did last time.

    What if a new GM comes in and expresses interest in bringing Barry back at a SLIGHTLY higher rate (say $700K-$800K) and can talk Larkin into accepting that salary as a utility player? My thinking is that the Reds are trying to clean up all the loose threads before a new GM is named, BUT a new GM needs to opportunity to put together a team at a decent payroll. He may decide Barry would make a nice utility player.

    I just think we're making a lot of assumptions based on the opening moves in a financial chess game. Allen has spoken. Larkin is appealing to the sentimental fans. It's one big negotiation done in a public forum.
    Im in no way supporting John Allen, but had he not came out and done this, Larkin would have appealed to the fans just like last time(difference is Larkin cant take the field for the fans to sway Linder).

    If im reading John Allen correctly, I think he is definitely trying to get rid of all the people who have in his eyes caused problems and start over. Bowden and Boone first, then Larkin. Expect Griffey to be the next casualty.

  7. #96
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Originally posted by creek14
    I can't stand JA, but I disagree, TCII.

    The Reds had to make a preemptive strike.

    Look at the crap Barry's agent is spewing about a "respectable offer". If he had been given a chance to say those things without the fans knowing what the Reds offered, the masses would have been livid with the Reds.

    Allen didnít slam Barry. Barryís agent is slamming the Reds. Someone is classless. This time (and maybe only this time) it isnít John Allen.
    I can't believe you're defending John Allen! Just wait till I see you this weekend! :evilgrin:

    But I wholeheartedly agree.

    I've listened to the interview with Larkin, at his home, several times now.

    It's again, all about money...and it shouldn't be IMO.

    Here's a guy who has spent 18 illustrious years with the same organization.

    He's been paid very, very well, and is just ending a contract that paid him 27 MIl. And he will be receiving deferred payments in the millions for how many years?

    He's at the end if his career. He says that the most important thing for him right now is to play one more year, if given the opportunity, and to then retire from the team that has employed him for these last 18 years.

    He knows his skills aren't what they use to be, and that age is the reason for that (including the several trips to the DL). He is at the "crossroads" that every aging veteran player must face.

    He also knows that the franchise cannot afford to spend lots of money, nor take the chance, on a 40 yr old, injury prone player who is simply trying to hang on.

    So money should not even be an issue. The "issue" IMO, is simply being offered the opportunity to fulfill that wish (see above ).

    This organization, if they really didn't want Barry back, could've offered him NOTHING as far as continuing to play.

    They could have said... "We are not going to offer you a contract for 2004, as a player, but instead would like you to accept an offer to work somewhere within this organization, contingent on that you announce your retirement."

    But they knew Barry wanted to play one more year, and that he would reject that offer.

    So they offered him a base contract, with incentives, to come back for the final year in a Red's uniform.

    If it were me, and being in that same situation, I would have jumped at that opportunity. To heck with the money! It's not like I should need it. It's a one year contract!

    Both sides basically get what they want IMO.

    But what does Barry do?

    He rejects it, and says he does so "based on principle"... i.e. "principle" = meaning "more money".

    He says that by making that financial offer (his agent states they cannot accept this economic contract), that it is just a formality, and they are showing him the door.

    WRONG Barry! You are showing yourself the door!

    Barry Larkin says he wants "respect"; but at the same time he doesn't show others that same respect he demands.

    I'm no big fan of JA either (though I don't hate him as some seem to do); but I would take it as being very disrespectful, and insulting, to me, if as the CEO, an employee not only rejects the offer, but then tries to go over my head to talk to my boss to change his mind. He is AGAIN trying to show "one upmanship", and make Allen look bad (and JA doesn't need any more help in this category ). But IMO, it's wrong, and classless.

    Shades of 1999, and the previous contract negotiations, when Barry did this then also?

    And Barry then goes on to publically say that he thinks this FO (referring to JA) are making this "personal"? Talk about "burning bridges"... WOW!

    WHO is making it personal? John Allen, in that press conference, had nothing but appreciation and praise for Larkin, and what he has done (and meant) for Cincy.

    Now maybe John didn't really mean it, and there may be some animosity there between him and Barry (I don't know)...but publically, Allen took the "high road", and did the class thing.

    And I'm sorry, but for Barry to say that he doesn't want a "Barry Larkin Day" is, IMO, a slap in the face of the fans who have supported him these many long years.

    Why he lets money do this to him, and again make an issue of it, is beyond me?

    But lets see who uses the media, and for whose purpose, over the next few weeks? Wanna make any bets?
    Last edited by GAC; 09-23-2003 at 08:46 AM.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  8. #97
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    Nice knowing ya, Barry. Good luck getting what you want on the free agent market. Maybe your buddy Junior will be joining you with the same team next season.

    As for the Reds.....move on. We have alot of work to do between now and Opening Day.
    If you think small, you'll go nowhere in life.

  9. #98
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    Having thought about it, the Reds are at fault in one respect. They shouldn't have offered Larkin anything. Rather than turn this into a money dispute, the Reds should have told Larkin that they think he should retire, they will give him a job, they will have a day for him, etc., but they want to go with a younger team. I think that would have been a cleaner approach and led to better PR.

  10. #99
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    I'm not sure that I can follow the PR disaster considering that many who have vehemently opposed the evil regime that made this decision have agreed with the decision, and for the most part the handling of the announcement. I'm sure they could have done a few things a little better, but it seems like they may have been hoping that Barry would realize himself that he should step down and retire after this season. Since that didn't happen, they at least made him a reasonable offer. Like others pointed out, I'm not sure what he thinks his worth is, but if someone pays him more than the Reds offered, at least the money's coming out of their account and not ours.

    I must give a general apology to those on this board who have been so vocal about their dissatisfaction with the Reds FO. I had unfairly concluded that these folks were just complaining for the sake of complaining--but they have proven otherwise with their willingness to admit the FO has handled a very delicate situation as well as could be expected. And that causes me to reconsider some of their opinions about how this franchise is being run.
    I still think John Allen is a scapegoat in some instances, but I am concerned about whether he is best suited to hire the next GM.

  11. #100
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    I've got no problem with the money issue here.

    What I do have a problem with is the captain thing. You don't take away the Wishbone C until a guy leaves the team, period. That is the bush league part of this. If he comes back next year, he should still have been a captain, no question.

    If it is about the money, screw Barry and his agent.

    If it is about the C, I'm with them.

  12. #101
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    When healthy, Larkin has produced at a higher level than most on this team this season. For the organization to feel that Juan Castro is more valuable to the team....yeah, I still say that's a slap in the face.

    Many of you are looking at this purely as a financial decision, but I stress that this is much more than that. To the great majority of the casual fans, Barry Larkin is the Cincinnati Reds, and there is no way to make the casual fan understand the business side of baseball, because to them, it is still just a game. We sometimes mock them for their ignorance, but forget that we too, were once just like them. Every fan of this game starts out as a casual fan, and baseball needs to wake up and do something, because they can't afford to lose the fans.

    Barry Larkin means more to the city of Cincinnati than just being a ballplayer. He is a positive African-American role model in a city that desperately needs them. He is a hometown boy who has become a success story. He is a hall of fame baseball player, and they don't make those every day.

    The good things Barry has done for the city have always seemed to go unnoticed, but he has always been there in the community, giving back wherever he can.

    I don't believe this is just about the money. I know Barry is a proud and intelligent man, as I know some of those who grew up with him, and I think that had the offer been presented in a more gentlemanly manner besides a take it or leave it way, that he likely would have signed a very similar contract to the one he was offered.

    Call me naive, or a homer, but this is how I feel. I have been a Cincinnati Reds fan I was born in 1977, and I have always loved Barry Larkin. To me, this is just another nail placed in the coffin by the absentee owner's megalomaniac fantasy dolt. I have more baseball knowledge in my left nostril's shortest nose hair than John Allen has in his entire body.
    My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!

  13. #102
    You know his story Redsland's Avatar
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    All of that good stuff could have continued. Barry chose to end it.
    Makes all the routine posts.

  14. #103
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Savafan,

    Those are nice thoughts. Perhaps send them on to Goldschmidt for his Larkin file. I'm not real sure what he was looking for the Reds to do, but the offer was fair. By the way, Juan Castro was available to play most of the season. It's hard to argue for your worth to a team from the DL.


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