Roberto Petagine

[919191]

Speaking of Richard Hand, he posts here, if anyone is interested.

http://www.baseball-fever.com/forumd...php?forumid=30

[NKyRedMachine]

Originally posted by NEILYNG
I don't recall discussing the United Kingdom (UK) with anyone from Kentucky. As for the FedEx and/or Emery thing -- if you are bringing up innocuous statements made years ago -- I think it's time you tried building a bridge and getting over it.

Funny....you're the one pining for Roberto Petagine for years and years..still whining about his banishment to the Japanese league, and you are talking to me about "building a bridge and getting over it?" You're too damned funny, but the thing is, you dont even realize it.

Oh...we've certainly gotten over it (to the tune of national titles, FF appearances, etc, etc), much better than your obsession over the Japanese castoff Roberto Petagine.

[NEILYNG]

Originally posted by NKyRedMachine
Funny....you're the one pining for Roberto Petagine for years and years..still whining about his banishment to the Japanese league, and you are talking to me about "building a bridge and getting over it?" You're too damned funny, but the thing is, you dont even realize it.

Oh...we've certainly gotten over it (to the tune of national titles, FF appearances, etc, etc), much better than your obsession over the Japanese castoff Roberto Petagine.

I would hope that the United Kingdom could capture a national title now and then.

What has the Kentucky football team ever done?

The Emery package is yet another black mark on the scandalous school in Lexington. What do you enjoy the most about being a Kentucky fan -- the racism? the cheating? the probationary years? how you can't keep good coaches like Rick Pitino? is it the general dirty cheating that goes on typically in the lexington community -- read anything about the history of the horse breeding business done there?

You've got nothing to be proud of -- just things to be ashamed of. Even these National Titles are tainted by the lies, the cheating and the racism.

[cincinnati chili]

Originally posted by SYCMiniBus
I am not saying Petagine would or wouldn't hit in the majors. I have no way of knowing. The Japan equastion that James put together holds true sometimes and others it doesn't. So Taguchi and Shinjo have never done much here other then ride Ichiro's coat tails.

You're right, we can't know. But since a lot of people don't know this I feel obliged to point out that Shinjo didn't hit well in Japan either.

Career through 2000.
Average - .249
OBP - .307
SLG - .422

[Fil3232]

This has been a good fight between Neil and the opposition. (steel, chip r, etc.). Just wondering...is it 10 rounds, 12 rounds? Does Neil have to answer steel's last post? If he doesn't, is it a TKO (statistically speaking) for steel? Just a couple of questions after reading this thread.

P.S. Petagine, although a good hitter in Japan, will never play for the Reds again (maybe a good thing, mayber not). I'll take a healthy Jr., Kearns, Dunn (bench of Pena and Stenson) anyway.

[Fil3232]

Originally posted by NEILYNG
I would hope that the United Kingdom could capture a national title now and then.

What has the Kentucky football team ever done?

The Emery package is yet another black mark on the scandalous school in Lexington. What do you enjoy the most about being a Kentucky fan -- the racism? the cheating? the probationary years? how you can't keep good coaches like Rick Pitino? is it the general dirty cheating that goes on typically in the lexington community -- read anything about the history of the horse breeding business done there?

You've got nothing to be proud of -- just things to be ashamed of. Even these National Titles are tainted by the lies, the cheating and the racism.

Every single program in major college athletics is dirty in one way or another...this is moot in today's times.

This is a good time to plug my favorite school...Go Redhawks...MAC Champions 2003, 2004...Ben Roethlisberger Heisman 2004

[Fil3232]

One last thing...

This is purely off the top of my head---what were Tuffy Rhodes' numbers in Japan? Didn't he tie/break Oh's HR record? Is there any difference between Petagine and Rhodes? Just curious.

[NEILYNG]

Originally posted by Fil3232
This has been a good fight between Neil and the opposition. (steel, chip r, etc.). Just wondering...is it 10 rounds, 12 rounds? Does Neil have to answer steel's last post? If he doesn't, is it a TKO (statistically speaking) for steel? Just a couple of questions after reading this thread.

P.S. Petagine, although a good hitter in Japan, will never play for the Reds again (maybe a good thing, mayber not). I'll take a healthy Jr., Kearns, Dunn (bench of Pena and Stenson) anyway.

I don't respond to posts with such harassment and is clearly a personal attack. I dealt with that in the appropriate manner and didn't make my actions public.

I'm still talking about what might have been with Roberto Petagine on board instead of Casey.

[NEILYNG]

Originally posted by Fil3232
Every single program in major college athletics is dirty in one way or another...this is moot in today's times.

This is a good time to plug my favorite school...Go Redhawks...MAC Champions 2003, 2004...Ben Roethlisberger Heisman 2004

No offense, I know the MAC Conference -- but who are the Redhawks??? I'm from Illinois and their noteriety doesn't stretch out this far.

[cincinnati chili]

Tuffy has a .380 career on base percentage over there, Petagine has a .451 career on base percentage.

I think Tuffy would be better in the U.S. now than when he left, but I don't think he'd be dominant year after year.

Here are his Japanese numbers. He definitely had some good years:

http://www.japanesebaseball.com/play...=905&Year=2003

[NEILYNG]

Originally posted by Fil3232
One last thing...

This is purely off the top of my head---what were Tuffy Rhodes' numbers in Japan? Didn't he tie/break Oh's HR record? Is there any difference between Petagine and Rhodes? Just curious.

Tuffy Rhodes might be another good example.

You see, what no one can say for sure is that some of these guys might just mature into good ballplayers later in their career. It can and does happen. I mentioned Barry Bonds as being someone who has dramatically picked things up statistically in the later years of his career.

Why is it so difficult for some of the folks around here to grasp that players like Roberto Petagine or Tuffy Rhodes just might be like that. They just never got their shot to do it in the Bigs -- that's all.

I think this is absolutely as plausible as it is to assme that a guy like Aaron Harang is going to develop into a good number three starter -- or not. We just don't know.

But to have an area like this to discuss this and toss it back and forth is really cool. Yeah, a couple of guys get a little uptight and try to pop off -- but you know , they need to be building some bridges for themselves to get over.

It's all good -- really.

[NEILYNG]

Originally posted by cincinnati chili
Tuffy has a .380 career on base percentage over there, Petagine has a .451 career on base percentage.

I think Tuffy would be better in the U.S. now than when he left, but I don't think he'd be dominant year after year.

Here are his Japanese numbers. He definitely had some good years:

http://www.japanesebaseball.com/play...=905&Year=2003

Plus -- obviously -- Roberto Petagine was with the Reds for a while. I think Tuffy was primarily with the Cubs.

[NEILYNG]

Why some guys got a shot in Cincinnati while others didn't is beyond me. I think it was a Bowden thing.

Paul Konerko was touted as a great power hitter that would hold down a spot in Cincy's roster for about a decade by Jim Bowden himself when he was acquired.

He got 55 plate appearances in the Big Leagues with Cincy before he was shipped to Indianapolis and then in the off-season to the White Sox for Mike Cameron.

Same thing with Petagine -- he was given just a brief trial and did actually fairly well with the abbreviated opportunity he did get -- and then he was sold to japan for $1,000,00 (what Juan Catsro is getting coincidently).

Casey on the other hand has had stretches that have lasted at least half of entire seasons, yet he was still getting run out there everyday. I got so sick of watching those weak grounders to second by Casey -- and yet he kept getting his ABs. It got almsot funny.

I've heard that Bowden definately played favorites. It was reported recently that Ryan Freel was NOT one of Bowden's favorites so he kept getting bumped around back and forth.

Does anyone have any of the links to those old Bowden articles from the Enquirer when some of those deals went down -- for Konerko and Petagine???

[NEILYNG]

Originally posted by NKyRedMachine
I And when I gave a dissenting view (not on Petagine, but on the obsession), the only comeback that I received was about UK and FedEx (actually, it was Emery, but I guess he is too busy gawking at his Petagine picture framed in his living room)

Good to see the more things change (like the location of the posts), the more they stay the same (Neil championing the cause of the immortal Roberto Petagine).

After all is said and done -- you've said more than you've done. UK is known nationally for it's cheating and scandals. The Emery overnight pacjage was just one of many.

If you ever got out of your state -- you'd know this. None of it would be a surprise.

[SteelSD]

Paul Konerko was touted as a great power hitter that would hold down a spot in Cincy's roster for about a decade by Jim Bowden himself when he was acquired.

He got 55 plate appearances in the Big Leagues with Cincy before he was shipped to Indianapolis and then in the off-season to the White Sox for Mike Cameron.

So your issue with Konerko is that he was dealt for a better all around player (Mike Cameron)???

Certainly, Konerko is a better option at 1B than the current version of Sean Casey, but Konerko has also been relatively overrated at the ML level. Let's take a look at the comparisons in 1999 and 2000:

Konerko:

1999- .863OPS
2000- .844OPS

Casey:

1999- .938OPS
2000- .902OPS

If you're going to try to tell anyone that that deal wasn't seen as a "win" after 2000, you are an insane man. And it wasn't like Casey wasn't projected to do that either- his Minor League OPS was a VERY impressive .949 (and remember- Konerko made a living in hitter-friendly Albuquerque). Only hindsight could possibly make that scenario (Casey/Cameron vs. Konerko) look bad. But that is where you live, Neil...

The short term advantage there in jettisoning Konerko and acquiring Cameron (undervalued to this day) was extreme with a .900+ OPS version of Sean Casey manning 1B. And no one- NO ONE- could have projected the extreme spiral in Casey's performance.

I've heard that Bowden definately played favorites. It was reported recently that Ryan Freel was NOT one of Bowden's favorites so he kept getting bumped around back and forth.

Do you have a link to that "recent report"? You must as it couldn't have been before 2003- Freel hadn't been with the Reds before that.

It couldn't have had anything to do with say...options...or...injuries. It must be that Bowden didn't like Ryan Freel? How in the world did Bowden know Ryan Freel long enough to like or dislike him???

Freel has the skill set of a decent bench option for the middle infield. That's great. Unfortunately, there's a lot more to running a Major League franchise than just calling up whomever you like, whenever you'd like to.

For the record, here are the Ryan Freel transactions:

04/19/03: Recalled Ryan Freel from AAA (replace Brandon Larson)
05/06/03: Optioned Freel to AAA (Larkin came off the DL)
05/22/03: Recalled Ryan Freel from AAA (Larkin on DL)
05/29/03: Placed Ryan Freel on 15-day DL
07/04/03: Activated Freel from DL and sent him to AAA (full roster)
07/28/03: Bob Boone and Jim Bowden Fired
07/31/03: Recalled Ryan Freel from AAA (Dempster on DL)
08/06/03: Optioned Freel to AAA (Larson back up)
08/20/03: Recalled Ryan Freel from AAA (Larson on DL 08/18)

Before Bowden was fired, Freel was called up twice- both times as a primary option to replace players lost to injury (Larkin) or poor performance (Larson). In fact, Ryan Freel was the first infielder recalled when the Reds needed a replacement- TWICE.

The next time Freel was sent down was due to a full roster with him coming off an injury that kept him out for over a month. That's simply tough luck- not some nefarious plan by Jim Bowden to rob the 27-year-old utility IF of opportunities. The new regime hasn't treated Ryan Freel any differently than Bowden did in the short time he had to evaluate him.

But what's this? Bowden was fired on 7/28 yet Freel was only recalled when a player went on the DL? And he was sent down again by someone not named Jim Bowden?? How could that be??? And how, if Bowden disliked Ryan Freel, why was Freel the first option Bowden turned to when a minor league infielder was required?

I hope Freel can be a good utility guy for us or even jump on the 2B slot by putting up positional average numbers there if we move Jimenez to SS. But no one screwed over Ryan Freel this season. What happened with Freel is what happens with any number of 27-year old minor leaguers who OPS around the .750 level. That's baseball. It's time you learned it.