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Thread: The Reds 2003 Revenue and Expenses

  1. #1
    You know his story Redsland's Avatar
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    The Reds 2003 Revenue and Expenses

    A few days ago Krusty asked about GAB revenues. Itís a subject we all discuss from time to time, and one that I know is dear to REDREAD, myself, and others. Unfortunately, these discussion usually suffer from lack of hard data.

    So, I decided to try to make a definitive list of all of the Redsí sources of revenue. Then I attempted to find out exactly how much revenue was derived from each source. With some effort, I was able to find good numbers for all but two of the sources, which I have good estimates for.

    Then I did the same for expenses. Iíve linked to all of my references, when possible, and explained my system when this was not possible.

    So here, then, is my attempt to settle the question of how much the Reds made in 2003.
    Code:
    2003 LOCAL REVENUE SOURCES
    Ticket Sales	$17.53	x	2,355,259		=$41,287,690
    Parking		$8	x	576	x	81	=$373,248
    Concessions*						=$16,486,813*
    Local Cable						=$5,000,000
    Local Radio						=$5,400,000
    Stadium Naming						=$2,500,000
    Founders Suites	8	x	$120,000		=$960,000
    Zone 2 Suites	26	x	$85,000			=$2,210,000
    Zone 3 Suites	23	x	$50,000			=$1,150,000
    Riverfront Club Memberships**	500	x	$500	=$250,000**
    Scorecards	$1	x	10% of attendance	=$235,526
    Scoreboard Messages	30	x	$35	x81	=$85,050
    In-Stadium Advertising***				=$8,000,000***
    Spring Training Income					=$1,000,000
    
    2003 NATIONAL REVENUE SOURCES
    National TV						=$13,333,333
    Revenue Sharing						=$15,800,000
    MLB Properties Sharing					=$4,600,000
    
    2003 GROSS REVENUE
    							$118,671,660
    
    2003 EXPENSES
    Administration, Operations, Player Development#			=$13,000,000#
    Ballpark Maintenance						=$9,000,000
    Ballpark Rent							=$2,500,000
    Marketing							=$3,000,000
    Merchandise Costs						=$3,000,000
    Player Payroll							=$63,062,016
    
    2003 EXPENSES
    								$93,562,016
    
    2003 REVENUE MINUS EXPENSES
    									25,109,644
    * Neither the Reds nor their concessionaire, Sportservice, reveals concession figures. However, under their old lease, the team was required to pay the county 10% of the gross from concession sales. The 1998 payment indicated concession sales of $11,000,000. This works out to $6.13 in concession sales for each of the 1,793,649 men, women, and children through the gate that year. Inflation adjustments take that $6.13 to $7.00 per person for 2003. I have ignored other factors, like the greater availability of expensive liquors, wines, and foods in GAB, and the expensive catering options available, making this estimate a lowball one.

    ** Iím sure GAC said his connection paid $500 for a membership to the Riverfront Club, but I canít find that post in our archives.

    *** For obvious reasons, it is very difficult to find information about in-stadium advertising revenue. However, we do know that the team sold out all of its advertising space. And we also know from a suit against the Mets that they underreported their advertising revenue by $13.5 million, which suggests that this figure, combined with whatever amount was reported, would give the Mets something like $15-20 million here. Finally, the Cleveland Indians made $8.8 million on signs and ads in 1997. Since the Metsí number doesnít tell us much, and since Cleveland is a Midwestern city with a new park (sort of), I used their number, but depressed it somewhat. Yes, their number is six years old, but Cleveland is a bigger market, their team was more successful at the time, and the economy was booming. By contrast, John Allen says he may have underpriced GAB advertising. Hence my conservative number of $8 million.

    # I heard this number a few months ago and etched it in my brain. Having previously never heard how much the team spends on the FO, minors, etc. I found this piece of data interesting. But now I canít find a cite. The Brewers claim to spend about $30 million here, FWIW.
    Last edited by Redsland; 01-28-2004 at 05:32 PM.
    Makes all the routine posts.

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    Are souvenirs and the Reds gift shop included in this?

    The actual Shop in the Westin, is that *owned* by the Reds?

    Awesome set up!! WTG on finding/figuring the dollar amounts!

  4. #3
    You know his story Redsland's Avatar
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    Originally posted by TeamDunn
    Are souvenirs and the Reds gift shop included in this?

    The actual Shop in the Westin, is that *owned* by the Reds?
    Yes. All MLB merchandise sales go into a pool that is shared equally by all teams. According the Brewers' disclosures, they got $4.6MM for 2003, which means that's what all the teams got. Assuming you believe the Brewers on matters of income.
    Makes all the routine posts.

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    Ahhhhhhhhh

    Gotcha!

    Thanks!

    You really did an excellent job on this!

  6. #5
    You know his story Redsland's Avatar
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    Thanks!

    And now the links even work!
    Makes all the routine posts.

  7. #6
    Member red-in-la's Avatar
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    Where does the salaries of non-players come in? Who pays Marty and Joe? They manager and coaches take in some coin as well as our illustrious President and GM and their staffs.

    Then there are travel costs and equipment as well as some rather large doctor bills.
    "Is there a problem officers?"

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    This is awesome. It's nice to debate using facts (cold, hard ones in most cases).

    I think you need to fix your links -- when I clicked on them, it put an extra "http://" in front of your links giving me an error message. After I deleted the extra "http" in the browser, it sent me to appropriate webpage.
    I'm not a hooligan. I'm a Reds supporter.

    Hooray Beer!

  9. #8
    Member JaxRed's Avatar
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    The player payroll number will be low for 2 reasons. I don't have a link handy but all teams have to pay about a 6 million dollar charge for something as part of payroll.

    And you have no allowance there for benefits, etc. For example the Reds pay Social Security on all these guys.

    And yes, I think you'll find your 13 million figure will be WAY low.
    The lowest acceptable payroll amount for ownership to show they are not greedy pigs is 15 million more than they are currently paying. No matter what that currently is.

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    You fixed the links as I was typing my previous reply. Thanks!
    I'm not a hooligan. I'm a Reds supporter.

    Hooray Beer!

  11. #10
    You know his story Redsland's Avatar
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    Originally posted by red-in-la
    Where does the salaries of non-players come in? Who pays Marty and Joe? They manager and coaches take in some coin as well as our illustrious President and GM and their staffs.

    Then there are travel costs and equipment as well as some rather large doctor bills.
    Marty and Joe are paid by WLW.

    Non-player salaries are paid out of the baseball operations, administrative, and player development budgets as appropriate. Healthcare, travel, catering, lodging, uniforms, equipment, the drafts, minor league operations, front office staff, RedsFest, spring training, etc. all come out of this pool.

    I'd break it all down as thoroughly as I have the revenues, but there's very little data out there to go by.
    Makes all the routine posts.

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    Originally posted by red-in-la
    [B]Who pays Marty and Joe? /B]
    I believe that WLW pays them but they are hired w/ the approval of the Reds.

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    The Player payroll of 55,509,745 this doesn't reflect the salary dump at the end of the year or the cash receive in the trades does it?

  14. #13
    You know his story Redsland's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Redmachine2003
    The Player payroll of 55,509,745 this doesn't reflect the salary dump at the end of the year or the cash receive in the trades does it?
    This is the amount actually paid by the team for 2003, according to Jax's shiny new site.
    Makes all the routine posts.

  15. #14
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    Never mind - I see your source now. Sorry for my confusion.
    Last edited by UKFlounder; 01-28-2004 at 01:17 PM.

  16. #15
    Member JaxRed's Avatar
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    You gave all the concession revenue to Reds. Only place I saw that had figures

    http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/ci...16/story7.html

    showed that Reds got 30% of concession revenue which would be $4,946,043.90

    so subtract 11 million from revenue.
    The lowest acceptable payroll amount for ownership to show they are not greedy pigs is 15 million more than they are currently paying. No matter what that currently is.


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