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Thread: Homosexuality, baseball's biggest taboo

  1. #46
    Member TeamCasey's Avatar
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    How'd this thread get over here?
    Pots and Kettles

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  3. #47
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Far East:

    So ... if you've inherited a tendency to be heterosexual, I suppose you can abstain?
    Why would I? There is nothing "unnatural" about being heterosexual. It was the way things were intended to be for "pro-creation" between a "married" man and a woman. I don't see anything to abstain from. If you can't understand that, I won't try to explain it to you, nor will I try and change your mind. You're entitled to your opinion, but your question is a bit of a stretch, and really proves nothing.


    Originally posted by cincinnati chili:

    All of those things hurt other people. Homosexuality hurts nobody.
    Tell that to the families that it has torn apart. I also believe that the AIDS epidemic that is rampant in the gay community would refute that statement.

    I realize that I won't change anyone's mind, and I knew that I wouldn't when this one started, but I feel that homosexuality is not natural and plain wrong. Everyone has a right to believe what they want, and I respect that. I won't bang my head against the wall on this one. There's really nothing left to say that would make any difference.
    Last edited by RANDY IN INDY; 03-01-2004 at 08:17 AM.
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
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  4. #48
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    If any of you somehow got conned into reading ESPN: The Magazine, there's an article in the Feb. 16th issue about Lindsy McLean, the SF 49ers trainer who "officially" outed recently after his partner's death (from AIDS), but whose homosexuality was an "open secret" in football for years. I have no idea how to find the article online...ESPNTMag. doesn't have any handy-dandy links to previous articles, and it sure ain't free...but see below for a suggested alternate.

    Anyway, the gist of the article was that McLean's professional life was hell, apparently, from the time it was surmised the guy who occasionally visited him in the 49ers' clubhouse was his life partner...

    If you don't have a subscription to ESPNTMag, there's an article in a San Francisco newspaper about the guy, and how the 49er players treated him. Badly.

    Evidently the 49ers ORGANIZATION was quite respectful of him and his life choices, though.

    ------------------------

    I think it's a shame how people in general can be so judgmental about other people's most personal choices, usually couched in terms of religious righteousness or moral superiority...

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    I had a lot more problem with this excerpt from one of paulrichjr's post on Page 1 of this thread than I have ever had with any person who's declared his/her homosexuality.

    This argument that always seems to lead to Jackie Robinson being discussed is ridiculous. Jackie was not doing behavior that is unnatural and wrong. Jackie's problem was that he was black. Racism is just as bad as being a homosexual. It should not be tolerated.
    Just like the issue of gay-ness, blacks DIDN'T HAVE THE PROBLEM.

    The people who judged Jackie Robinson based on his color, ex: the people who've restricted the freedom of blacks (and Native Americans, and those of Asian/East Indian/Hispanic heritage) to live like those of lighter-color skin who are the majority in positions of power in this country, they are the ones with the problem.

    Grow up, Americans. Stop being so narrow-minded. Stop being so judgmental.

  6. #50
    Member TeamCasey's Avatar
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    "Racism is just as bad as being a homosexual. It should not be tolerated."

    Isn't intolerance REALLY what shouldn't be tolerated? Isn't the statement "Racism is just as bad as being a homosexual." a racist statement in itself?
    Pots and Kettles

  7. #51
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    Ya know, I have to wonder how the anti-homosexual group is going to act if one of their children come home one day and tell them they are gay.

    Are you going to turn your back on your child if he/she decides to only date the same sex?

    And what exactly would rip the family apart? The child being gay or the family not accepting it and getting pissed off because their child will not change and conform to what THEY think their child should be?

    Just curious.

  8. #52
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    Sorry but a lot of research done since this study says that this is bull....
    Aside from the Xq28 theory of inheritance of sexual orientation are some about its being controlled by the prenatal intrauterine environment:
    www.leaderu.com/orgs/narth/1995papers/satinover.html

    ...and some about its control by inheritance of a gene on the mother's
    mitochondrial DNA:
    www.evolutionary-economics.org/ KSH-Postings-Econ/074.html.

    In effect, the orientation, I'm convinced, is inherited or at least congenital -- not a chosen "lifestlye".

    I know that the question is overused but for those who have not heard it it goes something like this: If you are heterosexual, do you recall precisely when you chose to be that way? If you have trouble answering , could it possibly be that you were born that way and that is not a matter of choice at all?

  9. #53
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Originally posted by TeamDunn
    And what exactly would rip the family apart? The child being gay or the family not accepting it and getting pissed off because their child will not change and conform to what THEY think their child should be?

    Just curious.
    I wouldn't want to put words into anybody's mouth but perhaps what Randy means by "tearing the family apart" is that one person of a married couple decides to leave his or her family for a gay relationship. Or perhaps what he means is that in the example listed, one of the persons contracts AIDS while in that relationship and passes it on to their spouse.

    BTW, I'm glad to see that this thread hasn't degenerated to the point where it would have to be closed. It's good we can discuss a topic that people have such strong feelings about civilly.
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  10. #54
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Originally posted by TeamDunn
    Ya know, I have to wonder how the anti-homosexual group is going to act if one of their children come home one day and tell them they are gay.

    Are you going to turn your back on your child if he/she decides to only date the same sex?

    And what exactly would rip the family apart? The child being gay or the family not accepting it and getting pissed off because their child will not change and conform to what THEY think their child should be?

    Just curious.
    I disagree with homosexuality because my religious beliefs consider it sin. Therefore, if my child made a conscious decision to pursue that lifestyle, I would treat the decision just as if they had chosen any other sinful lifestyle. I would attempt to share parental wisdom based on Scriptural principles and let them decide what to do with the advice. They would know that I loved them because sin is sin. All of my children are sinful, regardless of the particular wrongdoings, so if I would shun them from my family for that particular sin, then I would have to shun the rest of them for their sin also. I don't get to pick and choose what sins my children are going to commit. But I do get the opportunity to keep leading them to the Savior, whom ultimately they belong to anyway.

    Honestly, I do think about things like that and prepare a response, even though I hope to never have to use it. I think about how I will respond to any of my children if they walk in one day as a teenager and say "dad, I'm pregnant" or "dad, I got my girlfriend pregnant." The same goes for if my child one day came to me and said "dad, I'm homosexual." They will get a response along the lines of the above and a lot of love, which hopefully will lead them to or back to their Savior and away from the sin that so easily besets us all.

  11. #55
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    I wasn't going to say any more on this thread, but Chip hit my thoughts right on the nose. I know a family where recently, the father left them to pursue a gay relationship. It has been traumatic on the wife and kids, and the wife was so terribly afraid that she possibly could have contracted HIV. It's a real sad situation.

    A lot of you may want to defend such a thing, but I just can't find it in myself to do it. It is flat out"wrong."
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
    Fame is man given: be thankful.
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  12. #56
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    That was a great response, traderumor, and my feelings exactly.
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
    Fame is man given: be thankful.
    Conceit is self given: be careful.

    John Wooden

  13. #57
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    I like openness. I mean, it's a bit uncomfortable and I certainly don't want details, but secrets bother me more than declarations

    I've never met anyone who was open and a threat. I HAVE met at least one person that was both secretive and threatening. And while it admittedly took too long for me to realize not to hold the latter against the homo world, I do now recognize that we have a lot more of the secretive, threatening individuals in the hetero world.

    give me a world where we don't force suppression

    go, openness

  14. #58
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    There is nothing "unnatural" about being heterosexual
    I guess it depends upon one's definition of natural to begin with. I guess I'm using Encarta's definition #6: "innate: inborn, rather than acquired".

    My contention is that if -- and I realize that is a big "if" to you -- sexual orientation is genetic or even only congenital, then it is by definition natural, no less so than Downs syndrome, dyslexia, inborn immunities, or baldness are natural.

    So from my perspective here is nothing "unnatural" about any sexual orientation.

  15. #59
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Whatever. It just seems to me that sex is ultimately for pro-creation and two individuals of the same sex cannot, naturally, create a child. It just doesn't work that way. Not a natural kind of thing from where I sit.
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
    Fame is man given: be thankful.
    Conceit is self given: be careful.

    John Wooden

  16. #60
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    I know a family where recently, the father left them to pursue a gay relationship. It has been traumatic on the wife and kids...
    On the other hand, more than half of heterosexual marriages end in divorce, frequently with one (or both) "straight" souse(s) pursuing another partner and with much trauma to perhaps millions of children.


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