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Thread: Small Market

  1. #16
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Small Market

    Quote Originally Posted by jon20some
    Small Market = Small Minded.
    Why?

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  3. #17
    Hisssssssss Yachtzee's Avatar
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    Re: Small Market

    Quote Originally Posted by TeamBoone
    What exactly are other "small market" teams doing that are "cutting edge new ideas and techniques"? And just exactly what would an owner need to do to "succeed through innovation"?

    Just curious, because I don't have a clue as to what you are suggesting.
    Basically the idea is to follow the lead of teams like Oakland in thinking outside the box a bit in order to get ahead of the curve with new ideas in how to evaluate talent, assemble a roster and run a ballclub. I know it's not as simple as just saying "Do as Oakland does", especially since just about everyone and their brother has read "Moneyball" and many teams have already begun to adopt similar strategies.

    Since the Reds will never be able to outbid the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers etc. for quality free agents without significant change in the revenue structure, they will have to succeed through other means, particularly in the evaluation and development of talent. You evaluate the talent and look for guys who are undervalued by the market and snap them up. Once you've signed them, you have to the development staff in place to make sure you get the most out of each player. That's how you get a leg up on the other guy.

    It extends beyond just assembling the team on the field. I don't think the Reds have come up with any new ideas to market the team in ages. I feel there are revenue streams that haven't been utilized to their fullest. The Reds need to work on maxing out revenue streams while expanding the market to its geographic limits. I'm not sure what they can do to achieve those goals, but I think it starts with ending the long standing habit of the FO of blaming their inability to compete on the market. Somehow I get the feeling that everytime John Allen or Carl Lindner or the GM, whether Bowden or O'Brien, mentions the words "small market", the Reds lose more fans than they gain.

  4. #18
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Small Market

    Quote Originally Posted by Yachtzee
    Basically the idea is to follow the lead of teams like Oakland in thinking outside the box a bit in order to get ahead of the curve with new ideas in how to evaluate talent, assemble a roster and run a ballclub.
    That's great when it comes to running a ballclub. But that's no guarantee that will raise revenues.


    It extends beyond just assembling the team on the field. I don't think the Reds have come up with any new ideas to market the team in ages. I feel there are revenue streams that haven't been utilized to their fullest. The Reds need to work on maxing out revenue streams while expanding the market to its geographic limits. I'm not sure what they can do to achieve those goals, but I think it starts with ending the long standing habit of the FO of blaming their inability to compete on the market.
    I agree. But the $64,000 question is what do other teams do to maximize revenues? We can criticize the Reds all we want for being small minded but other than building new ballparks are other teams of our ilk doing a lot to maximize their revenues?
    The Rally Onion wants 150 fans before Opening Day.

    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Rally-...24872650873160

  5. #19
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    Re: Small Market

    If uncle Carl decided to have a payroll of 100 million instead of 50 million just because he can afford it then the Reds would go from a small market to a large market. But this new CBA has something in it about how a team can't spend more than what brings in so even if Carl wanted too I don't think he is allowed to do that anymore. So Good old Bud created market sizes that can't be change quickly.

  6. #20
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: Small Market

    Building a new staduim was supposed to change all that

    Now they spend less money than they did....

    We're small market because ownership won't let us be anything else...and they sure as hell won't let us forget it everytime they don't make a move or we don't win anything

    Hell they finally make a good move and they still have the throw the "small market" twist in it to explain a move that I think everybody agrees should have been done to better the ballclub!

    They need a PR overhaul and if they're so damn keen on the "small market" excuse, plan, or whatever it may be....they need to clue the fans in what exaclty they plan on doing to make this "small market" a success....
    Last edited by Matt700wlw; 05-11-2004 at 07:28 PM.

  7. #21
    Member Phhhl's Avatar
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    Re: Small Market

    The term has seeped into the culture of the game and has become an excuse for losers and losing. That is how it sounds to me, and as a lifelong Reds fan it makes me want to puke. He also used the word "creative", but if his idea of creativity is "creating" a roster spot for a total scrub like Jason Romano I have to question if he can even define that one. So far, we have no idea what a Dan O'Brien player even is, judging by his moves, except that he works cheap and about 1 out of every 50 may turn into a decent major league bench player or long reliever. I have very little faith in him.

  8. #22
    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: Small Market

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R
    I made a post a few weeks ago about 2001 revenues for MLB. The numbers stated that the Reds finished a respectable 20th out of 30 teams in gate receipts. All things considered that wasn't too bad if you remember how lousy a season 2001 was. But if you look at the local revenues - which include TV, Cable and radio revenues - the Reds finished a paltry 26th behind such teams as Pittsburgh, Florida, San Diego and Tampa Bay. What that tells me is the Reds can compete revenue wise with a lot of teams but the TV deal is a real millstone. Attendance revenues can only be so high. If they sold out every game they would draw over 3M fans. If the average ticket price is $20 per ticket that is still just $60M which is competitive with most teams except for NY, Seattle and Boston. But the TV deal is something that has more potential.
    BAM! Well said, Chip. I do not blame anyone or anything but the setup of MLB.
    Small market fan... always hoping, but never expecting.

  9. #23
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    Re: Small Market

    small market = Carl Lindner's small desire to win

  10. #24
    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: Small Market

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R
    I made a post a few weeks ago about 2001 revenues for MLB. The numbers stated that the Reds finished a respectable 20th out of 30 teams in gate receipts. All things considered that wasn't too bad if you remember how lousy a season 2001 was. But if you look at the local revenues - which include TV, Cable and radio revenues - the Reds finished a paltry 26th behind such teams as Pittsburgh, Florida, San Diego and Tampa Bay. What that tells me is the Reds can compete revenue wise with a lot of teams but the TV deal is a real millstone. Attendance revenues can only be so high. If they sold out every game they would draw over 3M fans. If the average ticket price is $20 per ticket that is still just $60M which is competitive with most teams except for NY, Seattle and Boston. But the TV deal is something that has more potential.


    Great post.

    I really don't understand why the term small market rankles so many people. It seems like a lot of fans think it means we don't want to win, or we have an inferiority complex.

    The current setup of MLB gives the major media markets a tremendous advantage. It is a fact. The deck is stacked before the game begins.

    To ignore this basic premise of the business of baseball sets one up for all kinds of aggravation. Through no fault of our own, the Yankees media contract dwarfs our own.

    Until and unless this is changed through revenue sharing of the local media dollars, we will always be at a competitive disadvantage.

    We can be smarter and tougher and work harder, but until the broken system of MLB is fixed, we will be at a disadvantage.

    There's no shame in that. It is what it is.

    To ignore it is reality distortion.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    ~ Mark Twain

  11. #25
    Member Marc D's Avatar
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    Re: Small Market

    Edited for my stupidity
    Last edited by Marc D; 05-11-2004 at 08:34 PM.

  12. #26
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: Small Market

    Where did you get the $13.9MM figure?

    An no, the Reds aren't making a huge profit. They probably made some money last year, but I'm quite certain it's not a "huge" profit.
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

  13. #27
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    Re: Small Market

    D, the Reds didn't turn a 13.9 mill profit.
    D, the Reds weren't league leaders in attendence.

  14. #28
    Member Marc D's Avatar
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    Re: Small Market

    http://www.forbes.com/free_forbes/20...8/064tab2.html

    something got messed up when I put it into excell, I stand corrected :al_cohol:

    But we were 14th in atten

  15. #29
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    Re: Small Market

    Our stingy owner is a billionaire but we are a small market team??? Uncle Carl, please sell the team and on your way out take Dan and John with you.

  16. #30
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    Re: Small Market

    Quote Originally Posted by BUTLER REDSFAN
    Our stingy owner is a billionaire but we are a small market team???
    The market is small and has nothing to do with Linder.

    If Steinbrenner owned the Reds they'd still be small market.


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