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Thread: Bender Update !!!

  1. #16
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Bender Update !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill
    Ben, in his rookie year, matched Casey. Sure he is not going to do that this year, but lets see where he ends up at season's end before we take fun from his failure. Let's wait a bit on player X too. If Casey slips, so do the Reds.
    Unfortunately that cat is out of the bag. I don't see anything wrong with poking a bit of fun at the Broussard lovers since they certainly had their share of fun poking fun at Casey and his fans. At least no one is doing one of these every single day. What comes around goes around.
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  3. #17
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: Bender Update !!!

    These types of threads rub me the wrong way, Chip, because they are meant as nothing more than folks sticking their noses in the air to those critical of Casey's performance over the past 3 seasons because of his hot start. I don't remember anyone ever "poking fun" at Casey.

    I'll gladly admit I was one of those who didn't think Casey's performance was very good at all the past three seasons. But I never once was criticial of Sean Casey the person. No one wanted Sean to succeed as much as I did. I rooted like hell for the guy, but let's face it - he didn't produce. Most likely, injuries contributed significantly to his decline in those seasons and it looks like he's healthy now. Believe me, I hope Sean continues his current trend for the next 10 years while wearing the Cincinnati Red uniform. Nothing would make me happier. I just wasn't willing to let my love for the guy make me believe that he was performing at the level the Reds needed him to.

    It's just all this "ha ha. I was right, you were wrong" strikes me as rather juvenile. These two months have been great, but it still doesn't erase the past three years. Let's just hope what we're seeing now is the real Sean Casey. For the record, I think it is. Do I think he'll continue with a 1.000+ OPS for te entire season? Nope. But I think a high .900s OPS in very realistic and I'm pulling for the guy. Everyone is pulling for him. So why all the childish finger pointing? I just don't know what you're getting satisfaction over. Is it that you think people were rooting against Sean Casey? Should people now feel foolish because they were critical of Sean over the last 3 seasons? Are these same people going to feel foolish themselves if he regresses back to his 2001-2003 performance levels the rest of the season? (Something I don't think will happen, but it's not out of the realm of possibility.) I don't get what all the laughing is about.
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  4. #18
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Bender Update !!!

    Player X has changed his name to Chris Reitsma, I think.

  5. #19
    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: Bender Update !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM
    I don't remember anyone ever "poking fun" at Casey.
    How about comments like "he leads the league in hugs" every time anyone dared to say anything at all positive about him?

    Mike, you know I like you and respect you. But you must have missed a lot of posts in the past three years if you don't remember the lambasting that Casey received here.

    And the worst part, to me at least, was the absolute certainty with which the detractors made their pronouncements.

    To me, it seems rather gutless now that all the people who had so much fun at Casey's expense the past few years don't step up and admit they were wrong. I'm not expecting it, though.

    Casey played through pain and injury during that time, and he was the ongoing butt of an endless stream of jokes and criticism. Well, it's just like Chip said.... what goes around comes around.

    And don't mistake any of this as dislike for Bender. Heck, I wish him nothing but the best, and I really liked him when he was in our organization, as I still do today. But the Bender update was the symbol of disrespect and dissatisfaction that used to drive the Casey supporters here crazy, and it doesn't bother me at all to now see those who listened to all that crap for so long to get a chuckle out of it now.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
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  6. #20
    "So Fla Red"
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    Re: Bender Update !!!

    RFS62 summed it up nicely.

    The abuse Casey took around here was pathetic at best. The board was almost unreadable at times with the 15 threads a day on how Casey was the problem. Before Bender, remember the countless Konerko threads? I think the pro-Casey backers have been very considerate in the response to date.

    Most of the board abuse centered around his 2004/2005 contract numbers (6.8/8M) and how the Reds could not compete with Casey's dollars on the roster. Beyond the daily threads, dismissing his leadership qualities and poking fun at his cheerleading are what annoyed me the most.

    The month Casey puts up an .800 OPS stretch I'm sure the trade Casey threads will be filling up the screen.

    No one is poking fun of Bender, he looks like a low-ceiling 27 yr. old prospect for a middling team.

    Now Graves has been the 2004 whipping boy de jour despite a 1.07WHIP and sub 3 ERA.

    The boys are 30-21. I know everyone is happy Case is having a great year. So, time to relax and have some fun!

  7. #21
    Member VR's Avatar
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    Re: Bender Update !!!

    I was an advocate of eschewing Sean and his under performing contract. He was hurt, played with pain when he shouldn't have been and didn't have any bat speed the last two years. I'll gladly eat crow.

    I think the thread title is hilarious. It's what makes this site so great. Being able to laugh at some of the absolute mantras' that get going in here.
    I didn't read that OR was trying to rub anything in anyone's face, just trying to bring out some levity while things are going great. Thus the 'just poking fun' start to the thread.

    If everyone was held accountable in here to there high and mighty predictions, we would all look like idiots. Some thrive on the need to be right, some thrive on just having some open discussions. It's really the crux of many of the negative vibes this board has had over the last year and a half. Well that, and losing.
    Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand

  8. #22
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Bender Update !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM
    These types of threads rub me the wrong way, Chip, because they are meant as nothing more than folks sticking their noses in the air to those critical of Casey's performance over the past 3 seasons because of his hot start. I don't remember anyone ever "poking fun" at Casey.
    As I said, MWM, what comes around goes around. As for threads poking fun at Casey, rest assured there were plenty of posts poking fun at him. Things like that he's only good for giving hugs. Or that when he came up with a runner on first it was a sure double play. You might want to tiptoe through some of the threads from last season to look at all the posts and threads that made fun of Casey. Unfortunately we don't have them from the year before so you could take a look at those threads too.

    If making fun and criticizing Casey by propping Broussard was fair game then making fun and criticizing Broussard by propping Casey is as well. Surely Broussard and his posse aren't immune to these gibes.

    I personally don't get any satisfaction from this "finger pointing". Nothing would please me more than to see Broussard and Casey succeed. But I'm sure some of Casey's backers are getting satisfaction at seeing him doing well at the expense of Broussard. No one would have cared about how Broussard was doing if there wasn't a "Bender Update" thread every day he got a hit. If you are going to dish it out, you're going to have to take it too. I know most of Broussard's posse want Casey to do well. But I'm sure there are others who may secretly wish he does poorly so the Reds will get rid of him. And there may be some who are rooting for Casey to do well so the Reds can trade him. Yes, Casey stunk the past 3 seasons and he very well may stink again. But right now he is playing like one of the best players in the game so it shouldn't be a shock to see his backers dish out a little of what they have been taking for the better part of the last three seasons.
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  9. #23
    All dyslexics must untie!
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    Re: Bender Update !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill
    Also do not forget that the player the Reds received in return in that shrewd trade is now toiling in Buffalo below BB.
    That was my thinking, as well. It never was fair (although it remained popular for awhile) to compare BenB with Player X. The deal was "Broussard for Branyan" and clearly the Tribe has gotten the better of it (FWIW, if the Reds still had BB, they would have a stronger bench and no need to acquire Vander Wal, etc) But Red's ownership rectified the underlying problem by showing JimBo the door, last July
    Never overlook the obvious

  10. #24
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    Re: Bender Update !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM
    It's just all this "ha ha. I was right, you were wrong" strikes me as rather juvenile.
    So why all the childish finger pointing? I just don't know what you're getting satisfaction over.
    If this Bender Update fits the "juvenile" and "finger-pointing" criteria, the former ones did as well. There is NO difference between the threads other than the performance of the respective players.

  11. #25
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    Re: Bender Update !!!

    The bender updates were not to poke fun at Casey but rather express our angst over a stupid deal. No one ever thought BB would be a star but would hit about .280 with 20 hr 80 rbi or so and at a much reduced cost. Sure Casey is producing now, but he did not over several seasons whilst being paid handsomely. We'll never know whether the FO would have spent Casey's salary on more pitching if BB had been made the 1B a couple seasons ago, but they would have had the opportunity. Perhaps the funds would have been there to get Finley or some of the better starters and keep them in the race than the affordable and very hittable pitchers they did acquire for the stretch run.

    I too am pulling for Casey, I have always liked him but I certainly would have dealt him long ago based on his extended performance and used the cash elsewhere. Perhaps that would appear to be a dumb move today, but most on here thought Casey's contract was a dumb move the day it was signed. He's got a ways to go to justify it.

  12. #26
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    Re: Bender Update !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill
    The bender updates were not to poke fun at Casey but rather express our angst over a stupid deal.
    The original posts, then and now, were numbers.

  13. #27
    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: Bender Update !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by backbencher
    If this Bender Update fits the "juvenile" and "finger-pointing" criteria, the former ones did as well. There is NO difference between the threads other than the performance of the respective players.
    "Ain't so fun when Player X has got the gun."

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  14. #28
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Bender Update !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill
    The bender updates were not to poke fun at Casey but rather express our angst over a stupid deal.
    Oh. yes, Bill, I'm sure no one who participated and started those updates ever had the intention of poking fun at Casey.

    Perhaps you didn't like the trade of Branyan for Broussard but where was Broussard going to play? He surely wasn't going to knock Casey out of the lineup since Sean had signed that long term deal. If anyone thinks the Reds would have benched Casey in favor of Broussard they are dreaming. Broussard was either going to sit on the bench and spot start or play in AAA. You and others may not have liked it or agreed with it but unless Casey had been injured for a significant amount of time it wasn't going to happen.

    Let Casey's backers have their fun just like they let Ben's backers have their's.
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  15. #29
    Member red-in-la's Avatar
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    Re: Bender Update !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by oregonred
    RFS62 summed it up nicely.

    The abuse Casey took around here was pathetic at best. The board was almost unreadable at times with the 15 threads a day on how Casey was the problem. Before Bender, remember the countless Konerko threads? I think the pro-Casey backers have been very considerate in the response to date.

    Most of the board abuse centered around his 2004/2005 contract numbers (6.8/8M) and how the Reds could not compete with Casey's dollars on the roster. Beyond the daily threads, dismissing his leadership qualities and poking fun at his cheerleading are what annoyed me the most.

    The month Casey puts up an .800 OPS stretch I'm sure the trade Casey threads will be filling up the screen.

    No one is poking fun of Bender, he looks like a low-ceiling 27 yr. old prospect for a middling team.

    Now Graves has been the 2004 whipping boy de jour despite a 1.07WHIP and sub 3 ERA.

    The boys are 30-21. I know everyone is happy Case is having a great year. So, time to relax and have some fun!
    OR, I think you need to go back and read those threads. In virtually every one of them, the point was made by even the most ardent anti-Casey posters that IF he indeed ever put up the numbers he is now putting up, he WOULD BE an asset and worth his contract.

    The issue was NEVER that Casey was a problem in the abstract.

    You also need to go back and look at Casey's career splits. He has behaved in this fashion in two other years, and the other half of those seasons were very bad.....so before you bestorw baseball sainthood on the Mayor, maybe you better wait to see if he can keep it up for 162 games first.
    "Is there a problem officers?"

  16. #30
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: Bender Update !!!

    RFS62,

    I remember comments like that from time to time and they were defnintely out of line. But I know I never made any comments like that and the couple of people I'm thinking of generally kept the comments around his performance. My recollection was that those types of comments came from a small minority. I always pulled for Sean. He's my favorite Red outside of Barry Larkin and I hope he stays with the Reds his entire career assuming he continues to produce.

    As far as the "absolute certainty" of the detractors, I agree with you. Some went too far in writing Casey's career off without really taking into account the true impact of his injuries. I think most of everyone on RedsZone hoped that his lack of performance was related to injuries, but I think it's pretty certain that he didn't produce at a high level in those three years, regardless of the reason. You and I are probably talking about different things here, but some were probably talking about his performance at that time, while others took issue with the appearance of writing the guy off.

    Jut to offer an opposing viewpoint on the issue from the other side, it seemed like certain players are beyond reproach because how likeable they are. Let's face it, some of Casey's detracors were probably unjustly lambasted for daring to be critical of such a wonderful human being. I remember being ripped apart on more than one occassion for merely montioning Sean Casey's production or even hinting at trying to trade the guy. The second someone mentioned that his numbers were near the bottom for 1B, they were crucified for Casey "bashing." I think that's probably where the "leading the lead in hugs" came from. I don't care for those types of comments, but it was probably just a defense mechanism for people who were ripped apart for criticizing Sean Casey. It goes both ways and I saw it from both sides. But as you know, that's usually how I see things. Where does the truth lie? Probably somewhere in the middle.

    step up and admit they were wrong.
    You know I'm a big fan of yours RFS, but exactly what were they wrong about? Are you completely convinced by these two months that he's back for good? I'm hoping like hell he is and I think there's a good chance he is, but I'm not entirely convinced yet. And even if he puts up an entire season of stellar production, does that make seomone wrong about 2001-2003. Again, we might be talking about two different groups of people. You're probably referring to those who pretty much wrote off his entire career.

    Here was my take. I wrote off the second half of 2001 because of the shoulder injury. Actually, I think most probably did. Even 2002 I assumed was related to being less than a year removed from the shoulder surgery. Many, including myself predicted big comeback years in 2002 and 2003 for Casey. When it didn't happen clear into 2003, what were we supposed to think? It seemed like enough time had passed for the shoulder not to be blamed. It appeared to me the guy had just lost bat speed and his approach to hitting had completely changed. I commented several times last year that he almost never took the ball to the opposite field anymore and that was the source of his problems. I didn't see how that was injury related, but it's possible it could have been. Now we hear things about an injured hip last year. Well, I didn't know about that until recently. Did all of his "supporters" (and I put that term in quotes because I was always a huge Casey supporter) know something his "detractors" didn't? After three years and several failed predictions of a comeback, what were we supposed to think? I admit, I didn't expect what we're seeing from him this year. No one is more thrilled than me. But let's be honest, how many thought this is the Sean Casey we'd see. How many who are now laughing actually predicted Sean Casey would have an OPS of 1.000+ through May and be a legitimate MVP candidate? I think Chase from 24 could count the number of those people on his left hand. :mhcky21:
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David


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