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Thread: Bender Update !!!

  1. #46
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: Bender Update !!!

    How can you criticize someone who says that Casey leads the league in hugs? He DOES lead the lead in hugs. In fact, I'd venture to say, he's got to be close to the all time record for hugs. :mhcky21:
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

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  3. #47
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Bender Update !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R
    I guess I fail to see how marketing a product or a player is relevant about which player is better, Casey or Broussard.
    It doesn't, it has to do with RFS62 comment that Casey was a marketing asset to the Reds.

  4. #48
    Member SteelSD's Avatar
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    Re: Bender Update !!!

    To me, it seems rather gutless now that all the people who had so much fun at Casey's expense the past few years don't step up and admit they were wrong.
    Y'know, I've attempted to type a response to this three times now and I honestly don't know how to respond. This passage has thrown me for a loop- partly because of the namecalling (which I never would expect from you, RFS) and partly because you're, again, pulling an "I told you so" rabbit out of your hat early in the season. That's another thing I wouldn't have expected from a guy who's normally seems a lot more even-keeled.

    And most puzzling is why you wouldn't name names here. I know you've called me out previously to today about Casey, but I certainly never saw this kind of emotional outburst coming. Are you seriously telling all those who've had issues with Casey's past performance to proclaim they're dead-on absolutely wrong a quarter into a long baseball season? Are you seriously calling those who'd take more time to evaluate "gutless"?

    Sorry for all the questions, but your behavior on this thread has left me quite stunned.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

    "The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch that’s over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.”
    --Ted Williams

  5. #49
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    Re: Bender Update !!!

    Chip, if memory serves, Ben was around and producing when the Reds gave Casey his current deal. Broussard's prescence on the farm made the long-term deal with Casey unnecessary. My notion was not for BB to beat out Casey but rather to replace him at a fraction the cost with the $ saved spent on pitching. It was not even imperative that BB succeed since 1Bmen are a readily available and cheap commodity.

  6. #50
    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: Bender Update !!!

    I'm not calling you out, Steel. If you didn't proclaim with absolute certainty that Casey was never going to be productive again, then why would you feel any need to respond?

    If you did, then I assume, and correct me if I'm wrong, that your response indicates that you need more time to decide.

    That's OK, either way. But don't act like you don't know that a lot of Casey bashing has gone on for the past few years here, and on a very personal level. If you don't think you took part in any of it, fine. I'm sure the people who post and read here have drawn their own conclusions, one way or another.

    Here's what I would contend, and quite certainly you and everybody else is perfectly entitled to your opinion..... Sean Casey has been lambasted for the past couple of years here, often on a very personal level. And anyone who dared say anything positive about him felt the full force of a lot of ridicule. If you don't agree with that, fine... we'll just agree to disagree.

    And I'm not talking about his production vs. his contract. I'm talking about cheap personal shots which offended me and I also believe offended a lot of other posters here. Hey, if you don't feel you are a part of that, then you have nothing to worry about and no reason to assume that you're being called out.

    Seems to me to be a case of when you dish it out, you should be able to take it. And yes, I do think after these two months of what I've seen from Casey, that he's back, and I'll be the first one in line for the serving of crow if I'm wrong.

    And if my "emotional outburst" as you put it really has you befuddled, believe me, it's been coming for a long time, and it's not a shoot from the hip display. It's the result of my perception that a great man and excellent major league baseball player has been relentlessly dogged here on a very profound and personal level for a long time. If you don't feel that you've been part of that characterization, then fine, you've got nothing to explain, do you?
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    ~ Mark Twain

  7. #51
    Administrator Boss-Hog's Avatar
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    Re: Bender Update !!!

    Well put, 62. You're not the only one who noticed the criticism of Casey that unfortunately at times extended to a personal level over the past few years.

  8. #52
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    Re: Bender Update !!!

    Most of the BB protagonists were not Casey antagonists. They simply wanted more production (injury or not) out of a position that is widely regarded as an 'offensive' position.

    The hypothesis was/is that BB could produce 'power' numbers in a ratio exceeding the salary ratio for SC/BB.

    SC makes $6.8M this year; BB $324,100. What could you do with $6,475,900 in terms of solving the other Reds problems? By that ratio, SC should hit 20 times more HRs than BB, drive in 20 times more runs, etc.....(in simplistic terms).

    To me, taking the best 2 months of Sean Casey's ML career and comparing it to the worst 2 months of Ben Broussard's ML career while ignoring the experience factor and the salary factor is a bit short-sighted. And, yes, it did come off to me as 'gloating'. We'll see a few years down the road 'cause that's when the balance sheet will be tallied vis a vie Broussard/Casey/Branyon.

    There are hardly any posters on this site that don't think that SC is a great person. There are however, posters on this site that would like to see more production for the money. And I doubt that there are any posters on this site that think that SC will keep up his current pace for the rest of the season, although we would all be happy about it if he did.

    Rem

  9. #53
    Member SteelSD's Avatar
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    Re: Bender Update !!!

    If you didn't proclaim with absolute certainty that Casey was never going to be productive again, then why would you feel any need to respond?
    If you don't think you took part in any of it, fine. I'm sure the people who post and read here have drawn their own conclusions, one way or another.
    Hey, if you don't feel you are a part of that, then you have nothing to worry about and no reason to assume that you're being called out.
    If you don't feel that you've been part of that characterization, then fine, you've got nothing to explain, do you?
    Interesting.

    My last post wasn't about Casey. It was about my complete incredulity that you'd call a group of people- real or perceived- "gutless". Furthermore, I hang my head that one who calls himself "balanced" would hang his own hat on 1/4 of a season. Really surprising stuff considering how you position yourself to others.

    However, what's not surprising is your attempt at subterfuge. Evasive as ever- choosing to throw a punch at the back of the neck of a collective rather than being honest and picking your foe. Articulate you may be, but you can't hide your undercurrent of distain with obfuscation and veiled indictments.

    What others might not be able to guage from your words is that you've just called me out...again...and using bad judgement at that. How do we know this? Because, RFS, we both understand the nuances of what's said versus what's not. And I think we completely understand each other at this point.

    You think I'm a "Casey Basher". And now we know that I'm one of the folks you were talking about. You're wrong. But let's get on with it.

    But let's play the game as real men instead of hiding behind vague references when we both know what's going on.

    In short, let's not be cowardly about things.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

    "The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch that’s over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.”
    --Ted Williams

  10. #54
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Bender Update !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill
    Chip, if memory serves, Ben was around and producing when the Reds gave Casey his current deal. Broussard's prescence on the farm made the long-term deal with Casey unnecessary. My notion was not for BB to beat out Casey but rather to replace him at a fraction the cost with the $ saved spent on pitching. It was not even imperative that BB succeed since 1Bmen are a readily available and cheap commodity.
    So obviously the Reds thought more highly of Casey than they did Broussard. Broussard did just fine in the minor leagues but he was blocked by Casey and his long term deal. Did you really think that the Reds were going to sit Casey and bring up Broussard at the first slump Casey went through? This isn't fantasy baseball where moves are made in a vacuum. Even if you traded Casey now and got great value for him, most fans would never forgive the Reds for doing that.
    The Rally Onion wants 150 fans before Opening Day.

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  11. #55
    Dunnilicious creek14's Avatar
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    Re: Bender Update !!!

    Gesh Steel, I would have never, ever gotten RFS calling you out from any of his posts. In fact I think RFS is man enough if he wanted to call you out, he would come right out and do it.

    But your reaction to his posts makes me think he must be hitting a little too close to home for you.
    Will trade this space for a #1 starter.

  12. #56
    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: Bender Update !!!

    You calling someone else a coward. Now that's rich.

    Don't flatter yourself.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    ~ Mark Twain

  13. #57
    Member SteelSD's Avatar
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    Re: Bender Update !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by RFS62
    You calling someone else a coward. Now that's rich.

    Don't flatter yourself.
    Huh?

    Geez, RFS. I just said that, by your response (well written I might add) that you obviously group me with the "Casey Basher" group. Not hard to figure out. You've attempted to call me on it before and then, in this thread, you questioned my motivation for responding. That's not a contestible point.

    I didn't call anyone a "coward" in that last post. I simply suggested that we don't use cowardly behavior when discussing the point.

    Or, is it just that it's very frustrating when someone else uses your own methodology when responding to you?
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

    "The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch that’s over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.”
    --Ted Williams

  14. #58
    A Little to the Left Redsfaithful's Avatar
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    Re: Bender Update !!!

    To me, it seems rather gutless now that all the people who had so much fun at Casey's expense the past few years don't step up and admit they were wrong
    They weren't wrong. Sean Casey wasn't a very good first baseman the past three years.

    Now if someone said in the past that "Sean Casey sucks now and for all eternity" then yeah I'm with you, they were wrong. But I think most of the bashing was in the present tense.
    We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
    --Oscar Wilde

  15. #59
    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: Bender Update !!!

    Actually, you went into chat and called me a coward behind my back, and you know it. That, I would suggest, is cowardly behavior.

    I guess I might have said something profound like "methinks thou dost protest too much", but why bother?

    Everybody here knows you and your style, Steel. You seem determined to turn this into a discussion about you.... wow, what a surprise.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    ~ Mark Twain

  16. #60
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: Bender Update !!!

    I really didn't mean for it to come to this. I think rem said it perfectly.

    I don't deny that some of the anti-Casey sentiment got a little personal, but I'm being perfectly honest when I say that I don't remember MOST of it being that way. I remember an occassional comment here and there, but my recollection is that the vast majority of the Casey criticism centered around what rem said in his post above. As a matter of fact, i remember a lot of people saying that if Casey produced at '99-'00 levels, then he was worth the contract.

    I know it might be asking a lot, but I wish someone would give me an example (outside of game threads) where the lambasting of Casey got personal.
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David


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