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Thread: Clinton National Security Advisor Sandy Berger Took Terror Files

  1. #61
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Clinton National Security Advisor Sandy Berger Took Terror Files

    Quote Originally Posted by RedBloodedAmerican
    Who are these people who alledgelly saw Berger slip classified material in his underwear and why did they not stop him at the time of the incident?
    Would you want to look in his underwear? I mean Fawn Hall would be one thing but I'd pass on looking in his undies.
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  3. #62
    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
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    Re: Clinton National Security Advisor Sandy Berger Took Terror Files

    Creek wrote:
    No, the bottom line is that he removed classified material from a secure location and took it to his home. And some of that material is still missing.

    With all due respect, Creek, I think you've missed my point. Obviously no matter who takes classified documents it is a concern.

    But all the hubbub is a little curious when it is leaked two days before a 9/11 Panel is about to release some bad news from the Bush administration. This thing has been going on for months...if it was so important, why now?

    If you are going to raise concerns, how about raising them about how this administration handled the events leading up to 9/11 instead of trying to shift responsibility to Sandy Berger?

    If you'd like to debate which is more important, then please- make your case.

    The White House attempted to say that they didn't know about this, but they've been outed by leaks within the administration.

    Why act like they didn't know when they did? If this isn't about politics, then it shouldn't matter when they found out:

    White House knew about Berger probe
    On Tuesday, as Washington was atwitter about whether Sandy Berger shoved classified documents into his pants and socks, and Democrats wondered who leaked the months-long investigation and why then -- two days before the 9/11 report was to be released -- White House spokesman Scott McClellan said the White House was learning about the story from the media, suggesting no prior knowledge. Today, the New York Times reports that the White House counsel's office has known about the Berger probe for months.

    "The White House declined to say who beyond the counsel's office knew about the investigation, but some administration officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said they believed that several top aides to Mr. Bush were informed of the investigation. President Bush himself declined to answer a question Wednesday about whether he had been told, saying: 'I'm not going to comment on this matter. This is a serious matter, and it will be fully investigated by the Justice Department.'"

    "The disclosure of the investigation forced Mr. Berger to step down as an informal, unpaid adviser to Senator John Kerry's campaign on Tuesday, and on Wednesday the campaign accused the White House of deliberately leaking news of the investigation and said that Vice President Dick Cheney was involved in strategies to divert attention from the Sept. 11 report to be issued Thursday."
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  4. #63
    Dunnilicious creek14's Avatar
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    Re: Clinton National Security Advisor Sandy Berger Took Terror Files

    Well Dom, I put a lot of blame for 9/11 on the Bush administration. The first Bush administration, that is. And the Regan administration and the Clinton administration, and the current Bush administration. Everyone screwed up for a long, long time. To say or think that 9/11 is only the resonsibility of Bush 2 is nonsense. And as I sit here and listen to Lee Hamilton present the final 9/11 report, he is spreading the blame too. The Clinton adminstration, who I supported, had 8 years to undercover this plot while it was in the planning stages.

    People seem to think that intelligence is just an easy black and white thing. Actually it's like having a billion piece puzzle, where all the pieces are shaped exactly the same, and you have to put that puzzle together blindfolded.

    It's amazing we have any success. And yes, we do have success. Thousands, tens of thousands since 9/11. But you'll never hear about those because they are either classified or no one cares to report that we arrested a illegal carrying castor beans in Omaha.

    Of course the timing is suspect. And oh what a shock, this must be the first time in the history of politics that something like this was leaked to aid one side or the other. It's politics. It's ugly and dirty and 99.99% of those involved are corrupt. So what else is new?
    Will trade this space for a #1 starter.

  5. #64
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Clinton National Security Advisor Sandy Berger Took Terror Files

    The only thing I would add to your post Creek is that the American people deserve some of the blame as well-most of us didn't want to face up to the threat of terrorism before 9/11/01. After the end of the Cold War, foreign policy was a minor issue in the 1992, 1996 and 2000 presidential elections. In the immortal words of "Pogo": "We have met the enemy and he is us."
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

  6. #65
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: Clinton National Security Advisor Sandy Berger Took Terror Files

    It's always about politics, Dom. You understand that as well as anyone. I'm almost ot the point I'm numb regarding these types of things. I think the release of the Bush drunk driving stuff the week before the election was the last straw for me.

    I have to agree with creek on the blame for 9/11. There's plenty of blame to be shared to think that it all lies on the shoulders of one man who was in the white house for 8 months. 9/11 was going to happen at some point. It was made possible by years, not months, of the lack of real intelligence; and by us underestimating the capabilities of terrorist organizations.
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  7. #66
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    Re: Clinton National Security Advisor Sandy Berger Took Terror Files

    People seem to think that intelligence is just an easy black and white thing. Actually it's like having a billion piece puzzle, where all the pieces are shaped exactly the same, and you have to put that puzzle together blindfolded.
    And can anyone seriously want George W. Bush to be one of the guys putting the puzzle together?
    The widow is gathering nettles for her children's dinner; a perfumed seigneur, delicately lounging in the Oeil de Boeuf, hath an alchemy whereby he will extract the third nettle and call it rent. ~ Carlyle

  8. #67
    La Dolce Vita
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    Re: Clinton National Security Advisor Sandy Berger Took Terror Files

    Quote Originally Posted by Rojo
    And can anyone seriously want George W. Bush to be one of the guys putting the puzzle together?
    The most insightful comments come wrapped in small posts.

  9. #68
    Dunnilicious creek14's Avatar
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    Re: Clinton National Security Advisor Sandy Berger Took Terror Files

    Quote Originally Posted by Rojo
    And can anyone seriously want George W. Bush to be one of the guys putting the puzzle together?
    Frankly I don't want Bush or Kerry coming anywhere near that puzzle.

    But one of them is going to.

    And they don't put the puzzle together. It's low paid grunts like me who do that. And we work really hard at it no matter who is sitting at 1600 Penn.

    It just gets all messed up as it's passed up. I have heard a person just a few steps up the food chain present some of my work and they add their spin and the content gets changed.

    It's as frustrating as hell.

    I bet if you went to the CIA and a few other organizations and could talk to the worker bee's, you would find people who knew what was going to happen.

    But they are buried under so many layers of bureaucratic nonsense that they and their information never see they light of day.
    Will trade this space for a #1 starter.

  10. #69
    A Little to the Left Redsfaithful's Avatar
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    Re: Clinton National Security Advisor Sandy Berger Took Terror Files

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...h-berger_x.htm

    WASHINGTON — President Bush on Wednesday described the federal inquiry into Clinton White House national security adviser Sandy Berger's mishandling of classified documents as "a very serious matter."

    Meanwhile, the FBI did not consider the incident to be a major threat to national security, a government official said.

    Also Wednesday, the House Government Reform Committee announced it would launch a separate investigation into the matter.

    Berger, the subject of a Justice Department investigation since October, said he inadvertently took from the National Archives versions of a classified memo that critiqued the Clinton administration's intelligence and security efforts for the period just before the millennium celebrations in late 1999.

    Berger also has acknowledged removing his own handwritten notes about classified documents, a violation of the National Archives' rules. Agents conducted searches at Berger's home and office in January and February for counterterrorism documents missing from the Archives.

    But a government official who asked not to be identified because of the political sensitivity of the matter said that FBI agents did not regard the Berger inquiry as "a front-burner-type of investigation."
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  11. #70
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: Clinton National Security Advisor Sandy Berger Took Terror Files

    I can see why this isn't a threat to our national security. And I'm also annoyed by the salivating sense of enjoyment many on the right are getting out of this. But no matter I look at it, I can't for the life of me figure how a representative in a previous presidential administration stealing classified documents relating to intelligence efforts of that administration is not a HUGE deal. I'm not trying to lay the blame for this on anyone other than Berger himself, but this seems like something that's pretty serious to me. I also can't understand WHY?
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

  12. #71
    CELEBRATION TIME RBA's Avatar
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    Re: Clinton National Security Advisor Sandy Berger Took Terror Files

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM
    But no matter I look at it, I can't for the life of me figure how a representative in a previous presidential administration stealing classified documents relating to intelligence efforts of that administration is not a HUGE deal.

    Did you forget the word "alledged"?

  13. #72
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: Clinton National Security Advisor Sandy Berger Took Terror Files

    Excuse me. IF it's true.
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

  14. #73
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Clinton National Security Advisor Sandy Berger Took Terror Files

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM
    Excuse me. IF it's true.
    I thought Berger admitted it. Oh I know he's said he returned most of what he took, but I'm not aware of any dispute as to whether or not he took classified documents without any authorization. Creek has noted that if she did that, she would go to jail. While I'm sure Berger will escape imprisonment, I question whether or not he should.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

  15. #74
    CELEBRATION TIME RBA's Avatar
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    Re: Clinton National Security Advisor Sandy Berger Took Terror Files

    I think, and you can correct me if I am wrong (you will), that Berger admitted to inadvertently taking the notes becasue of his sloppiness. It has been alledged by some witnesses that he stuff the notes in his socks. If the witnesses, say is true and are not some republican operatives, than that is daming in my opinion.

    If he admitted to stealing, than he needs to do the time. If he is found quilty, he needs to do the time. Sandy Berger doesn't seem to be a dishonest person to me. Just like Rove doesn't seem to be dishonest to many of you.

  16. #75
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Clinton National Security Advisor Sandy Berger Took Terror Files

    Quote Originally Posted by RedBloodedAmerican
    I think, and you can correct me if I am wrong (you will), that Berger admitted to inadvertently taking the notes becasue of his sloppiness. It has been alledged by some witnesses that he stuff the notes in his socks. If the witnesses, say is true and are not some republican operatives, than that is daming in my opinion.

    If he admitted to stealing, than he needs to do the time. If he is found quilty, he needs to do the time. Sandy Berger doesn't seem to be a dishonest person to me. Just like Rove doesn't seem to be dishonest to many of you.
    Berger never seemed to be dishonest to me either, which is one reason why I've found the story to be bizarre.
    I re-checked some on-line sources. While I found allegations that Berger stuffed documents in his pants, socks, etc., I found no admission by Berger that that was how he took the classified documents. Intent will affect my position on this. Were classified documents inadvertently "scooped up" by Berger along with his own papers and placed in his briefcase, or did he intentionally put a classified document into his briefcase, pants, socks, etc.? You certainly don't "accidently" put a document in your pants. Is there videotape to support the alledged wrongdoing?
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."


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