Turn Off Ads?
Page 1 of 12 1234511 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 188

Thread: Get rid of Adam Dunn while is value is high

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    ifreelgood
    Guest

    Get rid of Adam Dunn while is value is high

    While he hits some pretty homeruns, he is not very good in other aspects of the game.

    1)Big and Bulky, too slow in the field.
    2)Strikes out WAY too much, for someone who is VERY selective at the plate.
    3)Horrid with runners in scoring position
    4)Is not a .300 hitter
    5)Not a very good baserunner or fielder.

    you all may criticize me if you want.....but i think we should trade him while is value is pretty high, and he is not injured. I think Willy Mo and Austin Kearns have much more upside than Dunn. Just my opinion after watching baseball closely for 25 years.

  2. #2
    breath westofyou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    PDX
    Posts
    57,002

    Re: Get rid of Adam Dunn while is value is high

    http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/25/sp...pagewanted=all

    Baseball's New Generation of Benchmarks
    By DAVID LEONHARDT

    Published: July 25, 2004


    You probably learned about the benchmark from the same person who first taught you baseball, and it is in your mind every time you look at the back of a baseball card, read a box score or glance at a scoreboard. It could hardly be simpler: a good hitter has a .300 batting average or better.

    Like many fans, though, you have come to realize that batting average is a flawed measure of performance. It ignores walks and power hitting, two crucial and increasingly common parts of the game. But you still cannot help judging hitters by that nice round number. Who knows what a good on-base percentage or slugging percentage is, anyway?

    Well, the time has come for a new generation of benchmarks. They can be simple, and they can exist alongside trusty .300. There can even be a version that marks truly bad hitters instead of outstanding ones - a Mendoza line for the 21st century, if you will. (Who was Mendoza? Read on.)

    The reason people care about statistics in the first place is that they can describe reality, like a hitter's ability, a person's health or a day's weather, more clearly than words alone. The .300 mark, on the other hand, creates a fuzzy picture of baseball.

    It makes Ichiro Suzuki and Paul Lo Duca look more valuable than they really are and gives short shrift to Jorge Posada and Jim Edmonds. It has helped keep Dick Allen (career average .292) out of the Hall of Fame.

    On-base percentage may sound a tad esoteric, but it is a more basic concept than its better-known cousin. It measures how often a hitter succeeds on the most fundamental level: by reaching base, through hit, walk or hit by pitch.

    "The currency of baseball is outs," Chris Antonetti, assistant general manager of the Indians, said. "On-base percentage is the percentage of times a guy is not using up one of your 27 outs."

    That's why it does a better job than batting average in describing how well a hitter helps his team. The Yankees and the Blue Jays have nearly identical batting averages this season, for instance. But the Yankees' on-base percentage was 20 points higher, they had scored 103 more runs and they led the Blue Jays by 20½ games entering yesterday.

    On-base percentage is also a more useful tool for general managers trying to decide which players to sign. With all of the randomness that occurs when a bat strikes a ball and all the variation in fielding, a player's batting average often jumps around from year to year. On-base percentage is more consistent. A player with a good one this year is very likely to have a good one next year.

    What, then, is a good one? Meet the new benchmarks.

    THE .375 CLUB About 50 players a year, or nearly two a team, finish the season with a batting average above .300 these days. That is roughly the number of hitters who receive serious consideration for the All-Star team. Creating a similarly exclusive group for on-base percentage leads to the number .375.

    The Astros' Jeff Bagwell (.385) is trying to get back into the club after falling out last season for the first time in more than a decade. Mark Bellhorn (.376) of the Red Sox is in the group despite a batting average below .270. The Rangers' leadoff hitter, Michael Young, is on the precipice. The Orioles' leadoff man, Brian Roberts, is far below it.

    THE PEREZ LINE Mario Mendoza, a light-hitting shortstop in the 1970's and 80's, spent much of his career flirting with a .200 batting average.

    He fell short in five of his nine seasons, but his valiant battles have been enshrined in history by the term Mendoza line, referring to a .200 average.

    People generally credit George Brett with taking the term into the big time in 1980, when he said, ''The first thing I look for in the Sunday papers is who is below the Mendoza line."

    Today's answer to Mendoza is Giants shortstop Neifi Perez, now flirting with an on-base percentage of .275 or worse for the third straight year. As is the case with the Mendoza line, only a handful of players - including the Expos' Tony Batista and the Marlins' Alex Gonzalez - lurk near the Perez line in any one season.

    If one of them is on your favorite team, the front office is not doing its job. The free-agent market and the minor leagues are filled with inexpensive players who can reach base at least 30 percent of the time.

    AN EVEN .500 Avoiding outs may be a hitter's primary job, but hitting for power counts, too. Like on-base percentage, slugging percentage - total bases divided by at-bats, or the average number of bases a hitter racks up each at-bat - is a better measure of somebody's ability to create runs than dowdy batting average is.

    Slugging percentage is also far superior to runs batted in, which dress up mediocre hitters in good lineups to look like stars.

    The benchmark that separates the best 50 hitters or so from the rest is a nice, round number: .500. To find the truly great hitters, look for the ones who meet both benchmarks of success. Barry Bonds is easily leading in both categories (.616 on-base, .779 slugging), on his way to a 15th straight season with at least .375 and .500. The only players with longer streaks are Babe Ruth (17 seasons), Ted Williams (17), Stan Musial (15) and Jimmie Foxx (15).

    For now, on-base and slugging percentages are far easier to find on the Internet than in newspapers or on scoreboards. But that's changing. The Dodgers and the Giants began posting on-base percentages in their stadiums this year. The rest of baseball should follow. There is no point in focusing on batting average, or any statistic, at the expense of paying attention to the game.

  3. #3
    Goober GAC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Bellefontaine, Ohio
    Posts
    29,996

    Re: Get rid of Adam Dunn while is value is high

    This thread is gonna be a good 5 or 6 pager!
    "In my day you had musicians who experimented with drugs. Now it's druggies experimenting with music" - Alfred G Clark (circa 1972)

  4. #4
    MarsArmyGirl RosieRed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Posts
    2,783

    Re: Get rid of Adam Dunn while is value is high

    We might need to archive that NYT article.

  5. #5
    breath westofyou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    PDX
    Posts
    57,002

    Re: Get rid of Adam Dunn while is value is high

    Quote Originally Posted by RosieRed
    We might need to archive that NYT article.
    Nah..... it a lefty commie rag with destruction of all things on its agenda.

  6. #6
    Member Number_Fourteen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    450

    Re: Get rid of Adam Dunn while is value is high

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou
    Nah..... it a lefty commie rag with destruction of all things on its agenda.
    :GAC:

  7. #7
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    41,753

    Re: Get rid of Adam Dunn while is value is high

    Quote Originally Posted by ifreelgood
    While he hits some pretty homeruns, he is not very good in other aspects of the game.

    1)Big and Bulky, too slow in the field.
    2)Strikes out WAY too much, for someone who is VERY selective at the plate.
    3)Horrid with runners in scoring position
    4)Is not a .300 hitter
    5)Not a very good baserunner or fielder.

    you all may criticize me if you want.....but i think we should trade him while is value is pretty high, and he is not injured. I think Willy Mo and Austin Kearns have much more upside than Dunn. Just my opinion after watching baseball closely for 25 years.
    I'm confused. His value is high but you list all these things that is wrong with him. One might infer from reading your post that his value is low and he isn't worth much at all.
    Last edited by Chip R; 07-25-2004 at 05:40 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    I was wrong
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Chip is right

  8. #8
    Goober GAC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Bellefontaine, Ohio
    Posts
    29,996

    Re: Get rid of Adam Dunn while is value is high

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R
    I'm confused. His value is high but you list all these things that is wrong with him. One might infer from reading your post that his value is low and he isn't worth much at all.
    He's Dunn's agent!
    "In my day you had musicians who experimented with drugs. Now it's druggies experimenting with music" - Alfred G Clark (circa 1972)

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    7,703

    Re: Get rid of Adam Dunn while is value is high

    I agree and disagree. I don't think Adam Dunn will ever hit more than 30 homeruns in a year. How many years has he gotten to 25 or so by the All Star break only to end up with 27? This year, he has 26 now and if he gets to the 30 mark, I'll kiss Boss' feet in front of Great American Ball Park.

    Our pitching is officially atrochios. Outside of Claussen we have ZERO talent coming up for the rotation. Dunn could fetch us a top pitching prospect, maybe two. I want someone who can throw 97 or 98 MPH. If you would trade him, that frees up a spot for Wily Mo.

    If he would put it together however, he does have 50 homerun power. But considering he hits .250 and may never get above 30 homeruns, you just might have to look into getting a top prospect for him while you can.

    Good debate starter.
    "Strickland Propane... Taste the meat, not the heat." - Hank Hill

  10. #10
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    41,753

    Re: Get rid of Adam Dunn while is value is high

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfan30
    I agree and disagree. I don't think Adam Dunn will ever hit more than 30 homeruns in a year. How many years has he gotten to 25 or so by the All Star break only to end up with 27? This year, he has 26 now and if he gets to the 30 mark, I'll kiss Boss' feet in front of Great American Ball Park.
    Now this thread needs to be archived.
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    I was wrong
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Chip is right

  11. #11
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    41,753

    Pucker up, Buttercup

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfan30
    I agree and disagree. I don't think Adam Dunn will ever hit more than 30 homeruns in a year. This year, he has 26 now and if he gets to the 30 mark, I'll kiss Boss' feet in front of Great American Ball Park.
    Get those feet nice and clean, Boss.
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    I was wrong
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Chip is right

  12. #12
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    West Virginia
    Posts
    38,000

    Re: Pucker up, Buttercup

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R
    Get those feet nice and clean, Boss.


    You beat me to it

  13. #13
    Administrator Boss-Hog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    6,450

    Re: Pucker up, Buttercup



    Chip, remember the Bret Hart-Jerry Lawler thing like this?


    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R
    Get those feet nice and clean, Boss.

  14. #14
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    41,753

    Re: Pucker up, Buttercup

    Quote Originally Posted by Boss-Hog


    Chip, remember the Bret Hart-Jerry Lawler thing like this?
    Yeah. You going to get your feet all smelly and gross and disgusting too?
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    I was wrong
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Chip is right

  15. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    279

    Re: Get rid of Adam Dunn while is value is high

    I was one who was down on Adam Dunn last year, and I have to admit, I was wrong. He has continued to improve over every year. I am very pleased with how much he has improved just this year alone. And I can see that there is a very strong possibility that he will continue to improve over each year.

    It sure would be nice to see what kind of numbers he would put up if he had the likes of a healthy Griffey and Kearns, along with the emergence of WMP, hitting around him for any length of time.

    Great job Adam!! I'm glad the team didn't listen to me last year and decided to keep you. Go figure?


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | Gallen5862 | Plus Plus | Powel Crosley | RedlegJake | The Operator