Get rid of Adam Dunn while is value is high

[ifreelgood]

Dunn will bring more in a trade at this moment than Pena would.

[Sean_CaseyRules]

Dunn will bring more in a trade at this moment than Pena would.

[/QUOTE]Dunn will bring more in a trade at this moment than Pena would.[QUOTE]

I couldn't agree more

[RollyInRaleigh]

Anybody have any thoughts on Tony Gwynn's assessment of Adam Dunn last night?

[creek14]

Anybody have any thoughts on Tony Gwynn's assessment of Adam Dunn last night?

What was it?

[Chip R]

[The discussion should be how to get rid of Jr and what we can get for casey.]


Im sorry to say but i agree on Dealing Griffey for maybe a starter and a releiver or a couple releivers, but trading Casey is just stupid, how can you trade a guy who is batting over .300 for his career, comming in with clutch hits with RISP, hes leading the reds in that catigory, also do not trade dunn he will become great in the years comming.

Gosh, what an original idea. We sure have never discussed that before.

[RollyInRaleigh]

While acknowledging Dunn's talent, potential, and homerun prowess, Gwynn basically said that Dunn's strikeout rate was unacceptable. He said that he needed to hit the ball where it was pitched and use all fields more, and if he would do this, it would only make him a better hitter. The comment came up that he was trying to make Dunn into a singles hitter, as he had been, and his comment was basically that you couldn't make someone with that much power a singles hitter and that it would probably cut down on his strikeout totals and enhance his overall power numbers. He again emphasized that Dunn would only become a better hitter by using the approach.

[creek14]

While acknowledging Dunn's talent, potential, and homerun prowess, Gwynn basically said that Dunn's strikeout rate was unacceptable. He said that he needed to hit the ball where it was pitched and use all fields more, and if he would do this, it would only make him a better hitter. The comment came up that he was trying to make Dunn into a singles hitter, as he had been, and his comment was basically that you couldn't make someone with that much power a singles hitter and that it would probably cut down on his strikeout totals and enhance his overall power numbers. He again emphasized that Dunn would only become a better hitter by using the approach.

What does Gwynn know about hitting anyway?

[RollyInRaleigh]

:MandJ:

[Puffy]

What does Gwynn know about hitting anyway?

Yeah, he was just lucky most of the time!!

But seriously, Gwynn was really echoing what Chambliss is trying to do with Pena, and I think Adam could benefit from as well. If he could just cut his strikeouts down to the 120-125 range per 162 game season, use the whole field, he would be McGwiresque.

Of course, that is easier said then done, and Adam is pretty good with striking out 185-190 times a year, so it might be tough right now. But in three or four years, if he can begin to cut down on the K's and use the whole field, he will be like McGwire for those final five years of his career.

[Raisor]

People tend to look at what Dunn does wrong, but when you're one of the ten best hitters in the NL this season, there's a whole lot more he's doing right.

Of all the players on the Reds, Dunn is the one I worry the least about.

[KronoRed]

People tend to look at what Dunn does wrong, but when you're one of the ten best hitters in the NL this season, there's a whole lot more he's doing right.

Of all the players on the Reds, Dunn is the one I worry the least about.

Right on! seems people get ticked he's not going to win the triple crown so they want him gone.

Jim Thome K's a lot, he's not too bad and when he was Adam's age he was not a starter

[westofyou]

Tony has a point, that it won't change Dunn into a singles hitter, but maybe Thome?

Prior to this season Dunn K'd 1 time every 3 ab's, Thome 1 every 3.34, that's 19 K's over the season, maybe 6 more hits and 10 points on BA?

Dunn has worked on that part of his game as the season progressed, he tends to bottom out when he has bad months, the chief hit is in the SLG% department, mostly due to the lack of bat on ball during his AB's.

By Month

April - 2.44
May - 2.35
June -3.00
July - 3.33

Reggie Jackson K'd about 1 every 3.33 ab's during his first 1600 AB's, he was able to push that to 4.0 for his next 4700 AB's.

Any improvement by Dunn in K's will be small, baby step improvements, he'll always K at prodigous rates, you or I might notice a 10-15 % drop but the general public won't.

As for Gwynn, the man knows hitting for sure. I believe he has alot to offer any hitter in the game. Tony, though exists in a plane that doesn't intersect with todays game as much as the game of your grandfathers and their fathers.

CAREER
STRIKEOUTS <= 500
AVERAGE vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria
OPS vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria
RUNS CREATED/GAME vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria

AT BATS                         AB       SO       AVG      OPS     RC/G    
1    Ty Cobb                   11434      357     .094     .241     4.64   
2    Honus Wagner              10430      327     .061     .176     3.60   
3    Tris Speaker              10195      220     .070     .215     3.90   
4    Eddie Collins              9948      286     .059     .143     2.54   
5    Nap Lajoie                 9589       85     .072     .169     3.09   
6    Sam Crawford               9571      104     .049     .152     2.35   
7    Jake Beckley               9526      270     .030     .085     1.15   
8    Paul Waner                 9459      376     .049     .130     2.40   
9    Bill Buckner               9397      453     .025     .006     0.00   
10   Tony Gwynn                 9288      434     .073     .110     1.90  

BTW for the season WMP K's 1/3.3 and for his career 1/3.0

For the season prior to July WMP was K'ing 1/2.9, In july he has pushed his average up more than 35 points whilst cutting his K's down to 1 every 4.8.

Hot streaks do wonders for the K rate (as does hitting every 1st pitch you can) I'd look for WMP to experience streaks that will be equally frustrating as Dunns, with a lower BB rate.

[RollyInRaleigh]

I don't think there is anything wrong with folks wanting Dunn to improve his game and cut down on the K's. I always thought the game was about constantly working on your weaknesses and trying to get better to make the ballclub better and to win. What do I know, anyway.............

[Spring~Fields]

Of all the players on the Reds, Dunn is the one I worry the least about.

Raisors statement here makes me stop and think for awhile, I almost find the statement to be too much reality to handle being a Reds fan. I think yes Dunn and add a couple of other names Casey and maybe Kearns, but outside of those three on a team of 25 the rest certainly are something to worry about.

If we are honest none of the pitching is very good to date. We can’t count on Larkin due to age and injuries; we can’t count on Griffey because of reoccurring injuries. Reds catchers are nothing to write home about, they have no third basemen, and I am sure they could find an upgrade at second base, the rest can’t seem to hit or field on a consistent basis so it looks like the Reds only have three players that they or the fans can count on, yes maybe Willy Mo if he gets a lot more fielding practice.

So Raisors remark makes me realize that the Reds really are in sorry shape. It makes me cringe to hear the Reds talk of rebuilding, knowing that drafts, trades and player development may take a very long time, many years, because a lot has to go right in a minor league world where most players don’t make it leading up to the majors. It is really sad that the Reds only have 3-4 players that can really be counted on when we stop to think about it, consistently at the mlb level. Sure some will mention Freel or Jimenez, but I am sure upgrades could be found for those two.

Since quality pitching is so limited and spread thin amongst all the major league teams, isn’t it fiction to think that anyone of the 3-4 decent players that the Reds have could get a really good pitcher in return?

So I think Raisor is right, there are 22-23 other players on the Reds to really worry about, and it seems insurmountable to fix for many years to come to me, with an organization with a tight budget. Alot of things will have to go almost perfect for them to fix the mess the FO has made.

[flyer85]

Raisors statement here makes me stop and think for awhile, I almost find the statement to be too much reality to handle being a Reds fan. I think yes Dunn and add a couple of other names Casey and maybe Kearns, but outside of those three on a team of 25 the rest certainly are something to worry about.

If we are honest none of the pitching is very good to date. We can’t count on Larkin due to age and injuries; we can’t count on Griffey because of reoccurring injuries. Reds catchers are nothing to write home about, they have no third basemen, and I am sure they could find an upgrade at second base, the rest can’t seem to hit or field on a consistent basis so it looks like the Reds only have three players that they or the fans can count on, yes maybe Willy Mo if he gets a lot more fielding practice.

So Raisors remark makes me realize that the Reds really are in sorry shape. It makes me cringe to hear the Reds talk of rebuilding, knowing that drafts, trades and player development may take a very long time, many years, because a lot has to go right in a minor league world where most players don’t make it leading up to the majors. It is really sad that the Reds only have 3-4 players that can really be counted on when we stop to think about it, consistently at the mlb level. Sure some will mention Freel or Jimenez, but I am sure upgrades could be found for those two.

Since quality pitching is so limited and spread thin amongst all the major league teams, isn’t it fiction to think that anyone of the 3-4 decent players that the Reds have could get a really good pitcher in return?

So I think Raisor is right, there are 22-23 other players on the Reds to really worry about, and it seems insurmountable to fix for many years to come to me, with an organization with a tight budget. Alot of things will have to go almost perfect for them to fix the mess the FO has made.

You nailed it. Better get the flame suit on.

There is not a lot of reason of for optimism in the next few years. The Reds arguably have both the worst rotation and worst pen in the NL this year.

The Reds only tradeable commodities are OF/1B for which there are no replace ments in the minors.

If they were to deal a Casey they might get two decent PROSPECTS(or suspects) in return. It is not a pretty picture as the organization is hamstrung(pun intended) by Jr's contract.