We can blame it all on Ron?
O'Brien said former Phillies infield instructor Ron Oester, who is now the Red's Minor League Field Coordinator, gave Machado a glowing recommendation.
I feel better already.
We can blame it all on Ron?
O'Brien said former Phillies infield instructor Ron Oester, who is now the Red's Minor League Field Coordinator, gave Machado a glowing recommendation.
I feel better already.
I still am laughing out loud at all the people ripping this trade.
Oh goodness, what will the Reds ever do without Todd Jones?!! I might have to quit watching, they just gave up Mariano Rivera Jr.
HAHAHA
Amazing.
The truly important part of this deal is that it signals to everyone in the baseball world that the Reds are raising the White Flag and that despite what has been said recently, Wilson is a legitimate target so come and get him.
Nah, that's far too logical and not nearly as much fun. Let's bag on OB over something we know nothing about instead.Originally Posted by buckeyenut
How old was Randy Johnson before he cracked the major leagues? He was 25 before he saw any big league action, and 27 before he had his first decent season. Now he's a sure-fire bet for the Hall of Fame. Now, don't get me wrong, in no way am I saying Hancock is as talented as Johnson, but you can't "discard" a guy solely based on his age. Especially considering the fact that he went to college. Watch him pitch first, and then make a judgement. He's not great, but he could be a solid long man out of the pen. The Phillies have a bunch of young pitchers ahead of him (Madson, Floyd, Hamels, Bucktrot, among others), so Hancock was made expendable.Originally Posted by RedsDude
Todd Jones is 36 and has had his first decent season in awhile. It's tough to get greedy and demand to get a top-nothc prospect for the guy. They got two mid-range prospects, which is about all you can ask for. By that judgement, Danny Graves would then be able to at fetch BJ Upton, and probably a couple other prospects.
i know todd jones couldn't bring a top short-stop prospect. i was hoping we could package him with wilson, lidle or graves etc. to get a top player. obviously a player like upton couldn't be had for anyone in our system, but i think we could have got someone like kinsler or brandon phillips if we got a little more creative.
After a night to sleep on it I am still firmly in the good trade camp.
There's a lot of talk on here about Dan O and the fact he hasn't done much/showed anything. I have been pretty skeptical of him myself, but I tried to think of it objectively and this is what I have seen so far. I know I will be corrected if I am way off base....
What has Dan O done so far?
1)He flipped Rietsma for Bong and Nelson while saving payroll
2) Used Jones to give very similar production for less money.
3) Flipped the fill in Jones for two younger mid level prospects who will probably be upgrades over the TVP long relief position and the Castro all-glove-no-hit bench role.
4) This means he will very likely dump Castro and save more money.
In essence he has now turned Rietsma into 3 pitching prospects and a SS prospect while losing no production and creating payroll flex. Very,very Beane-esque if you ask me.
I am the type of person who looks at the principles of a situation more than the specifics. While I will grant you these are not blockbusters, if you look at the essence of what he is doing and project it to bigger deals I am starting to warm to the possibilities of what Dan O might accomplish.
Anytime you can get someone to give you a box of baseballs for a 36-year old retread, you've made out on the deal.
Great work, Dan O'Brien. Keep plugging along....one move at a time....and this organization will see better days.
Rob Neyer: "Any writer who says he'd be a better manager than the worst manager is either 1) lying (i.e. 'using poetic license') or 2) patently delusional. Which isn't to say managers don't do stupid things that you or I wouldn't."
It's utterly amazing when a poster chooses to show his ignorance (and proves it beyond any shawdow of a doubt) all in the same sentence.Originally Posted by RedsDude
You know nothing about the pitcher, yet you're sure he stinks????? Why not try and find out something BEFORE you reach a conclusion?
Hancock would, at this stage, look pretty similiar to Harang at this time last year.
Machado looks alot like Ordonez, yet he might walk about 100 times a year. Ordonez plus walks = a major league starting SS.
We got Hancock and Machado for Jones. Last year, we got Hummell, Belise and Manning for Sullivan, White, Heredia and Mercker. I'd say that any of those 4 pitchers were as good as Jones, yet we got a better haul for Jones than for those 4 pitchers combined.Yet, some think we got fleeced.
Unbelievable.
What the Reds got for relief pitchers last year when Allen took over with his minions:
Heredia: placed on waivers, the Yankees claimed him and the Reds let him go. Received absolutely nothing.
Williamson: $1.25M, minor leaguer LHP Phillip Dumatrait, minor leaguer LHP Tyler Pelland.
White: $400,000 and then more Cash in the off season
Merker: AA RHP Matt Belisle
Sullivan and paying half of his remaining salary: Tim Hummel
Koronka: Norton
O'Brien's pitcher moves:
Selected Rule 5 David Mattox from the Mets; Who then went to the DL in ST.
Sold John Bale: Cash from Japan
Traded Reistma: LHP Jung Keun Bong and RHP Bubba Nelson
Traded Charles Manning: LHP Gabe White
Sold Mark Watson: Cash from Japan
Traded Todd Jones and Brad Correll: RHP Josh Hancock and SS Anderson Mercado.
Signed: Cory Lidle, Aaron Myette, Brian Mallette, Mike Matthews, Jesus Sanchez, Benito Baez, Sean Bergman, Elvin Beltre, Wifrin Obispo, Todd Jones, Jeremy Sugarman.
Let go of: Ryan Dempster, Dan Serafini, Scott Service, Carlos Almanzar, Joey Hamilton, Lance Davis, Leonal Arias, Jimmy Haynes, Scott Randall, and Jesus Sanchez.
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.
Sometimes you can't asess these deals to three years down the road.
If you think small, you'll go nowhere in life.
If it takes someone 3 years to decide whether this deal is good or bad then I suggest they follow football or another sport.Originally Posted by Krusty
You know the more I look at this trade, the more I like it. Compare it to trades the Reds have made of other older, middlin', relief pitchers in the last 10 years. Now add in what we gave up to get Jones to begin with.
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.
Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please. |