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Thread: Todd Jones traded

  1. #121
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Todd Jones traded

    http://www.timesleader.com/mld/timesleader/9287092.htm

    O'Brien didn't rule out another trade on Saturday, the final day to make one without waivers, but indicated there won't be a flurry of deals like last year.

    "There are still some phone calls coming in," O'Brien said. "This is a fluid situation, but our goal is the same - to try to maintain the core of the players that we have."

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  3. #122
    Member Eric_Davis's Avatar
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    Re: Todd Jones traded

    I forgot about that incident where Jones threw the bubblegum into the Phillie's stands and they threw it back at him. :MandJ:
    Rob Neyer: "Any writer who says he'd be a better manager than the worst manager is either 1) lying (i.e. 'using poetic license') or 2) patently delusional. Which isn't to say managers don't do stupid things that you or I wouldn't."

  4. #123
    So Long Uncle Joe BoydsOfSummer's Avatar
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    Re: Todd Jones traded

    Hancock has been a Red since late January, I drafted him in the late rounds of a Diamond Mind league.
    0 Value Over Replacement Poster


    "Sit over here next to Johnathan (Bench)...sit right here, he's smart."--Sparky Anderson

  5. #124
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    Re: Todd Jones traded

    "We were not intending to trade Todd Jones, but Philadelphia kept coming back to us," O'Brien said.

    I like his hardball strategy. When you say you aren't giving up someone that means they are gonna have to give up more cause our "intention" ( FAT quotes ) is to keep the guy.


    I mean.............Mr. DePodesta and Mr. Terry Ryan, we wanna "keep" Wilson and Lidle for that "Stretch run"

  6. #125
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Todd Jones traded

    Quote Originally Posted by Crash Davis
    Hasn't M2 been requesting Machado for a couple of years now? That was M2 wasn't it?

    Aren't you going to take credit for it now that it's actually come to life?
    Yeah, it's been a few years now since I first mentioned him, but he always struck me as a SS sleeper. Might pan out, might not, but if you're not going to trade for, sign or draft a top SS talent then you could do a lot worse than a kid like Machado. The other sleeper guy I always had my eye on was Jhonny Peralta, but he's probably untouchable these days.

    Just for a bit of perspective on this deal. While neither player the Reds got for Jones profiles as a sure thing, it's quite probable that both will have better/longer major league careers than Phil Dumatrait and Tyler Pelland. At least these two guys, if they flame out, will do it in the majors as opposed to somewhere in the bushes. For Todd Jones, that's not such a bad return.

    Mark D, I agree this was a very "Moneyball" trade.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  7. #126
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Todd Jones traded

    Too bad Alfredo Simon was dealt to the Giants a couple of hours before the Jones trade. He would have been a nice pickup along with Machado.

  8. #127
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    Re: Todd Jones traded

    QUOTE=shaunsinger
    I like his hardball strategy. When you say you aren't giving up someone that means they are gonna have to give up more cause our "intention" ( FAT quotes ) is to keep the guy.


    I mean.............Mr. DePodesta and Mr. Terry Ryan, we wanna "keep" Wilson and Lidle for that "Stretch run"[/QUOTE]


    Dang! I didn't realize that we received Scott Kazmir and BJ Upton for Todd Jones and a minor league OF! (DWIS) Hardball? For a couple of mediocre prospects? Puleeze!

    I don't see that moving Todd Jones was that important unless he was included in a deal for an impact player. Like many have been saying - stand up to the contenders and make them pay. I'm not saying TJ was worthy of an A- Level prospect, but combine him with Wilson or Lidle or LaRue, etc. for a solid B which would be preferrable to the two level C's we received, IMO.

    The remainder on his contract for this year was not that much, he was a great clubhouse presence (i.e. horsing around with the fans this evening) and while his 8-2 record/ 3.79 ERA and 51 apearances were not gaudy, hwe was a comparatively settling factor in a very shaky bullpen that now boasts Ryan Wagner and John Reidling as its top two RH setup options. Things have been ugly lately but don't bet they can't get uglier and that they can't carry over to next year.

    Like I said earlier, I'm not that down on this trade, but to place this deal on a pedestal as a monument to DanO's perservernce and ability to play hardball is absurd.

    In fact, my first impression of this deal is the same as my early opinion of DanO himself...ho-hum.

    Coming up with just enough solid players and just enough winning months to keep this club in a perpetual 3rd-4th place cycle. Enough potential to give the fans some tenuous hope, but not enough hope to force the FO into a position of too much pressure to add to payroll.

    DanO, like this deal, may well turn out better than it first appears, but as of yet, there's very little to make me believe.
    Last edited by corkedbat; 07-31-2004 at 01:58 AM.

  9. #128
    Charlie Brown All-Star IslandRed's Avatar
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    Re: Todd Jones traded

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine
    Too bad Alfredo Simon was dealt to the Giants a couple of hours before the Jones trade. He would have been a nice pickup along with Machado.
    I liked Simon's FSL numbers a lot when I saw them, thinking he had a high upside; not so much when I saw he's 23. Hancock was putting up good numbers in AA at 23, for what it's worth. Simon may still turn out to be something but he wasn't one of the crown jewels of the Philly system. I don't know that the Giants made out any better than we did, and Rodriguez is a better pitcher than Jones.

  10. #129
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    Re: Todd Jones traded

    Quote Originally Posted by corkedbat02
    Quote Originally Posted by shaunsinger
    I like his hardball strategy. When you say you aren't giving up someone that means they are gonna have to give up more cause our "intention" ( FAT quotes ) is to keep the guy.


    I mean.............Mr. DePodesta and Mr. Terry Ryan, we wanna "keep" Wilson and Lidle for that "Stretch run"

    Dang! I didn't realize that we received Scott Kazmir and BJ Upton for Todd Jones and a minor league OF! (DWIS) Hardball? For a couple of mediocre prospects? Puleeze!

    I don't see that moving Todd Jones was that important unless he was included in a deal for an impact player. Like many have been saying - stand up to the contenders and make them pay. I'm not saying TJ was worthy of an A- Level prospect, but combine him with Wilson or Lidle or LaRue, etc. for a solid B which would be preferrable to the two level C's we received, IMO.

    The remainder on his contract for this year was not that much, he was a great clubhouse presence (i.e. horsing around with the fans this evening) and while his 8-2 record/ 3.79 ERA and 51 apearances were not gaudy, hwe was a comparatively settling factor in a very shaky bullpen that now boasts Ryan Wagner and John Reidling as its top two RH setup options. Things have been ugly lately but don't bet they can't get uglier and that they can't carry over to next year.

    Like I said earlier, I'm not that down on this trade, but to place this deal on a pedestal as a monument to DanO's perservernce and ability to play hardball is absurd.

    In fact, my first impression of this deal is the same as my early opinion of DanO himself...ho-hum.

    Coming up with just enough solid players and just enough winning months to keep this club in a perpetual 3rd-4th place cycle. Enough potential to give the fans some tenuous hope, but not enough hope to force the FO into a position of too much pressure to add to payroll.

    DanO, like this deal, may well turn out better than it first appears, but as of yet, there's very little to make me believe.

    Unfortunately, when you say we could have packaged him with Lidle, Wilson or Larue, this is real life and not MVP Baseball 2004 for Xbox.

    When 2004 started we didn't even have Todd Jones on our team and now we have two prospects in retrun, say thank you to the Phils and go to sleep happy.

    When I was crediting O'Brien's "hardball" I was only 1/2 serious. The fact he even said "we weren't gonna trade him" made me chuckle because it's like all of a sudden Todd Jones is untouchable?

    I just meant he is playing this 'Hardball' thing out to the last hour and I kinda like it. Where does it help us to take the first thing out there? Our prize right now is Paul Wilson, you know that and I know that. I really think we might keep him just to anchor the staff and not embarass Mr. Lindner and Assoc., but I do think if we get bolled over by a great offer we will take it. And I promise you that offer won't be the same one we got a week ago I promise you that.

    Dude, Victor Zombrano just netted an A++ Prospect. Paul Wilson can get us a B- to B by his lonesome in this market and I for one am excited!

    However, If Dan O'Brien really stays pat, I'll know he is just an owner's whipping boy and not the GM that knows the proper direction of this team.
    Last edited by shaunsinger; 07-31-2004 at 02:26 AM.

  11. #130
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    Re: Todd Jones traded

    YEAH!!! Let's put up the damn White Flag!!! Hell yes, Uncle Carl and Dumbass Dan, let's tell the fans its over and not to come and then blame them when attendance falls in August and September and say the fans are the reason the Reds can't compete.. These are marginal prospects for the Phils, sounds like a can't miss trade to me.. Damn, when did the Reds become the laughing stock of MLB, man, this is insane!! The sad thing about this trade is it obviously wasn't about $$$, which means Dano is more of a freakin idiot than originally thought..
    The way i see this years Reds team is that there are 2 guys that are just awesome in the clubhouse,1 is Sean Cassey and 2 is Todd Jones.. Some of the stats guys are all up on this trade and all for it.. BUT, PEOPLE more needs to be taken into account than just stats.. Sure, Jose Guillien was worth less than his stats, and Todd Jones is worth more than his, etc...

    But this trade mades no sense for the Reds, it does NOTHING!!!

    Good Luck Todd!!! I don't like the Phils, but I like what the Phily Papers said about the Pathers last January, so good luck!!! Hope you win a RING!
    I'm East of you. Be very very worried. Not quite OBX. But, be worried.

  12. #131
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    Re: Todd Jones traded

    Quote Originally Posted by shaunsinger
    Unfortunately, when you say we could have packaged him with Lidle, Wilson or Larue, this is real life and not MVP Baseball 2004 for Xbox. When 2004 started we didn't even have Todd Jones on our team and now we have two prospects in retrun, say thank you to the Phils and go to sleep happy. When I was crediting Obrien's "hardball" I was only 1/2 serious. The fact he even said "we weren't gonna trade him" made me chuckle because it's like all of a sudden Todd Jones is untouchable? I just meant he is playing this 'Hardball' thing out to the last hour and I kinda like it. Where does it help us to take the first thing out there? Our prize right now is Paul Wilson, you know that and I know that. I really think we might keep him just to anchor the staff and not embarass Mr. Lindner and Assoc., but I do think if we get bolled over by a great offer we will take it. And I promise you that offer won't be the same one we got a week ago I promise you that. Dude, Victor Zombrano just netted an A++ Prospect. Paul Wilson can get us a B- to B by his lonesome in this market and I'm excited! However, If Dan O'Brien really stays pat, I'll know he is just an owner's whipping boy and not the GM that knows the proper direction of this team.
    I can agree with most of what you say, but still believe that with the market for veteran pitchers, Jones, could've meant an extra decent prospect or a prospect upgrade if added to a deal with someone like Wilson, Lidle or LaRue.

    Out of Wilson, Lidle and Jones, hanging onto Jones and playing out the string for the rest of the season with no compensation would have bothered me least. If nothing else, the 8th inning should now be even more adventuresome.
    Last edited by corkedbat; 07-31-2004 at 02:34 AM.

  13. #132
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    Re: Todd Jones traded

    Regarding the second to last post :MandJ:

    Todd Jones as an untouchable? Did the medication wear off early this evening or simply a bad night out on the town eh jonsome?

  14. #133
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    Re: Todd Jones traded

    The deal does nothing? Lets see
    1)Hancock gives the Reds another possible MR guy for next year who is 10 years younger than the Jones
    2)Machado gives the Reds Castro's replacement again, almost a decade younger in age.

    Moneyball type of deal, did DanO just run some numbers through the computer during the time he was awake today?

  15. #134
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Todd Jones traded

    120 k's and 108 walks?? all with a .196 avg??

    Good grief! he's like a little Dunn minus the bat :MandJ:

    I don't have much of an opinion on this deal, nice to get some new blood for a MR we won't be needing
    Go Gators!

  16. #135
    I hate the Cubs LoganBuck's Avatar
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    Re: Todd Jones traded

    Jones was unlikely to profile as much in the way of draft pick compensation. The reds just pulled off a good trade to get valuable and cheaper replacements for the bench and bullpen for 2005-2006. If both are on the roster next year this trade is a very good trade. I kind of like Machado a little. He seems like Juan Castro circa 2001, except he has speed, which this team is sorely lacking. He probably doesn't even have Ryan Freel upside on offense but, he does have the ability to pinch run, and be a defensive replacement. A .345 OBP isn't that bad.


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