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Thread: Pros and Cons of Keeping Miley

  1. #31
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    Re: Pros and Cons of Keeping Miley

    In his favor, we've had more young players take a big step forward than we have in years.
    The widow is gathering nettles for her children's dinner; a perfumed seigneur, delicately lounging in the Oeil de Boeuf, hath an alchemy whereby he will extract the third nettle and call it rent. ~ Carlyle

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  3. #32
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Pros and Cons of Keeping Miley

    Last year St. Louis fans were complaining about how Tony LaRussa used his bullpen. This year he's a genious again (noted by others again, not his own self-proclamation . What's the difference? The bullpen is performingwhereas last year he had all kind of problems out there. However, a con with Miley is that he did not recognize early in the year that he could not use a status quo bullpen pecking order and get success. Even now, he keeps using Riedling and Norton when other options are available. But, his bullpen usage would greatly improve with some better arms out there, as relievers make managers look good when they come in and get batters out and make them look dumb when they don't. I think the Reds need to concern themselves with getting better players moreso than they need a new manager to manage them.

  4. #33
    Glenn Braggs
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    Re: Pros and Cons of Keeping Miley

    Quote Originally Posted by Rojo
    In his favor, we've had more young players take a big step forward than we have in years.
    But with Wily Mo for example the step occured despite Miley, who would rather let Romano, Cruz or someone else play.

    Miley is not the problem with the Reds, neither was Bob Boone or Jack McKeon or Ray Knight the problem before. Over the last years it's lack of starting pitching and injuries to important players, which made it impossible for the managers to post a winning record. I would love to see that the Reds give a manager a long term contract and make a statement concerning stability from this position .... but I guess currently it's more welcome to have another possible scapegoat in Miley so that the public is focussing less on the most urgent need, which still is starting pitching & successfull player development.

  5. #34
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    Re: Pros and Cons of Keeping Miley

    I agree Red Thunder.

    While there are things that bother me about DM and that have been stated here......it is still hard to win w/constant injuries and bad pitchers.

    Miley does not help his cause with batting Lopez higher than 8th...EVER.

  6. #35

    Re: Pros and Cons of Keeping Miley

    REDREAD Are you a female?
    HUBBA A man who knows everything,just can't remember it all at one time.

  7. #36
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    Re: Pros and Cons of Keeping Miley

    Where's princeton and his annual plea for Whitey Herzog?
    "People that frequent Internet forums resemble the cast of One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest!" - C. J. Cregg, The West Wing

  8. #37
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    Re: Pros and Cons of Keeping Miley

    Quote Originally Posted by Hubba
    REDREAD Are you a female?
    What difference does that make?

  9. #38
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    Re: Pros and Cons of Keeping Miley

    Quote Originally Posted by letsgojunior
    What difference does that make?
    I was just thinkin the same thing.
    Troy Smith 4 Heisman 2006

  10. #39
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Pros and Cons of Keeping Miley

    Quote Originally Posted by Hubba
    REDREAD Are you a female?
    Let me check.. No.. I'm still male.

    Sorry if I accidently turned you on :MandJ:
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  11. #40
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    Re: Pros and Cons of Keeping Miley

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsland
    But what really grates on me is the total lack of fire mentioned by WV above. This guy gets his guts stomped out every night, and instead of showing some emotion about it, he looks at his feet and mumbles something about "finding a way." Dave, if your sucky sucks suck, then you're not going to find a way, because there is no way. So throw some bats, scream at Phil Norton, and show these kids that their sucky sucking isn't how we do things here.
    While I don't disagree with that, its different strokes for different folks so to speak. I can see how both styles can and do work.. But look at a firey guy like Larry Bowa, didn't get anywhere this year..
    Also, we should have had a firey manager starting off the 2001 season. His name was Ron Oester(SP), but we all know what happened there, and I wouldn't be oposed to seeing him manage the Reds.

    But, I'm still for Miley right now. He hasn't shown me enough to dislike him yet. Usually he takes his starters out before they blow up unlike Boone he would leave Haynes etc. out there just long enough to give up 5 runs, but with Miley you can't help it when Acevedo gives up 5 runs in the second or Harrang gives up back to back to back homers in the 4th, but in general I think he handles to starters okay. The bullpen, who knows. You can only use what you have and he doesn't have much.. Its sickening to see Norton out there constantly blow leads or Graves too, but you have to ride the horse you have. Boone on the other hand had a tremendous BP and it should have been his goal to get the starters to pitch 5-6 innings and not expect anymore, but yet he always stretched them just long enough to give up the 6 spot..
    After have the BB and see how he would constantly micro manage its good to see Miley stick with a set lineup and for the guys to know what the deal is before they show up the next day. While he should probably tinker with it more from time to time, compared to BB constantly having a different batting order. It has to be nice to know if you are Ryan Freel that if you go 0-4 that you aren't going to be batting 8th or benched for poor performance. It has to be a releif for AD to know that if he strikes out 4 times one night he will have a chance to redem himself. BB would pull that crap for 1 time random performance.. And see the many escapades of Jose Guillen to see how BB would screw with players heads..
    I'm East of you. Be very very worried. Not quite OBX. But, be worried.

  12. #41
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    Re: Pros and Cons of Keeping Miley

    I'd like Miley to get a second year. Considering how the FO depleted his bullpen I think he did OK. I'll expect a winning season though next year.

  13. #42
    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: Pros and Cons of Keeping Miley

    Quote Originally Posted by oneupper
    Miley...a favorite target.

    If mediocre is good enough...Miley's your man.
    Well, now that you mention it, I agree with that. And that's not a real cut on Dave Miley. He simply will never guide a team to the World Series. Witness tonight. He benches Kearns in favor of Freel, who should be playing third base. Instead, for some odd reason, he plays Lopez. His best lineup (moving from first base around the infield and outfield) is Casey, Jiminez, Larkin, Freel, Dunn, Pena, Kearns, LaRue, and the so-called pitcher. Hands down. Kearns is finally showing some pop in his bat, and unless he is hurting, should be in the lineup. He wasn't.

    Harang has his first bad outing in a month, but still only allows 4 runs. A few runs would help, but our #5 hitter is batting .256 with very little pop and our #6 guy is also at .256 but swinging a hot bat with lots of pop. What gives? He allows Joe Valentine to get his brains beat out in the ninth, though we were only 4 down. This team has scored that many a lot of times.

    Then there is his tendency to play Javier Valentin at catcher at odd times. The Romano and Cruz situations, and bringing Norton in time after time to allow a couple of runs.

    I'm beating a dead horse here and I truly like Miley, but if he is offered an extention this year, we'll have him a long, long time. And unless he learns a lot (and I sincerely hope he does), we'll have some good, not great, teams that won't make the playoffs due to his managing. Sorry. This will be my last post on the subject, but I've seen so many stay here only because of "loyalty." Loyalty doesn't have any talent nor play a position, so going with that does not a champion make...
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  14. #43
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Pros and Cons of Keeping Miley

    I blame this FO for giving Miley the BP that they did in 2004. They've blown 30+ games this year for us when we were either tied or in the lead in late innings.

    I agreed with the decisions they made last year in trading away those guys they did (free agents, arb eligible). The only one who is having any type of sucess out of the whole lot is Reitsma.

    And we got White back at alot cheaper rate.

    But what I didn't agree with was the hap-hazard way inwhich they handed the '04 BP over to a bunch of "unprovens" and young arms that have no track record of success out of the BP (exception was Jones). They went into this season "on a wing and a prayer" when it came to this BP. It was unacceptable IMO. Yes, injuires hurt us again. But this BP really screwed any chance we had this year.

    I'm hoping that this FO (espcially DanO) will take the steps to correct this in the off-season. It simply takes doing their homework, which they didn't do going into this season.

    Think how much better this team would have done with, and will do next year, if they just address the issue of this BP.
    Last edited by GAC; 09-01-2004 at 06:04 AM.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  15. #44
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    Re: Pros and Cons of Keeping Miley

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Thunder
    But with Wily Mo for example the step occured despite Miley, who would rather let Romano, Cruz or someone else play.

    Miley is not the problem with the Reds, neither was Bob Boone or Jack McKeon or Ray Knight the problem before. Over the last years it's lack of starting pitching and injuries to important players, which made it impossible for the managers to post a winning record. I would love to see that the Reds give a manager a long term contract and make a statement concerning stability from this position .... but I guess currently it's more welcome to have another possible scapegoat in Miley so that the public is focussing less on the most urgent need, which still is starting pitching & successfull player development.
    I just disagree that a manager who fails is necessarily a "scapegoat." The Reds have won in recent years with name managers with track records. Piniella, Johnson, McKeon. Anderson was not a proven manager, but came from another organization (San Diego) and was selected on perceived merit. Not a "company man."

    I believe that managers and coaches make a big difference in professional sports today. While guys like Boone, Knight or Miley are good baseball men, there is no substitute for a difference-making manager, someone who has shown that he knows how to win at the major league level.

    Miley is fine if the Reds want to go the "good baseball man" route; perhaps he will get even better with more major league experience. But a real team would want a proven winning manager.

    P.S. I think one reason the Red Sox always lose to the Yankees is their unwillingness to hire big time managers. Maybe Francona will prove me wrong.
    Last edited by Kc61; 09-01-2004 at 12:27 PM.

  16. #45
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    Re: Pros and Cons of Keeping Miley

    I agreed with the decisions they made last year in trading away those guys they did (free agents, arb eligible). The only one who is having any type of sucess out of the whole lot is Reitsma.
    GAC, I agree with the premise of your post, (that we generally shouldn't be overpaying for bullpen arms with inflating salaries) but if our alternative is to trade or non-tender every solid (or in Williamson's case, better than that) player once they are arbitration eligible, we're going to continue to end up with black holes like the 2004 bullpen.


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