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Thread: O'Brien to Larkin: "Your starting services are no longer needed"

  1. #1
    Smells Like Teen Spirit jmcclain19's Avatar
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    O'Brien to Larkin: "Your starting services are no longer needed"

    http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/sports/9605888.htm?1c

    Looks like the end of an era has been reached. Sad day in Reds history.


    Reds to bench Larkin for rest of season


    Daily News Wire Services



    Barry Larkin's name won't be found in Cincinnati's starting lineup for the rest of the season and the Reds' captain is disappointed and hurt by the news.

    And, the 40-year-old Larkin said he believes it is the team's way of showing him the clubhouse door.

    Larkin was summoned to general manager Dan O'Brien's suite at the team hotel in Houston yesterday morning and was told his starting services were no longer required.

    Larkin revealed the news before last night's 9-7 loss to the Astros. He said he had expected to play the rest of the season.

    Larkin is hitting .300 for his 327 at-bats this season over 98 games and has made only four errors.

    Instead of Larkin facing Houston's Roy Oswalt last night, it was 23-year-old Anderson Machado making his major-league starting and hitting debut. Machado, who the Reds got from the Phillies on July 31 as part of the deal for reliever Todd Jones, was 0-4 and stuck out three times.

    "They said they want to see Machado and Felipe Lopez splitting time at shortstop, but I think it's just their way of not letting me get out there to show what I can do this last month of the season," Larkin said. "That'll make it easier for them this offseason."

    Asked if this meant anything as far as Larkin's future with the Reds, O'Brien said, "No, not really. This is more about the fact that we need to see if either Felipe or Machado can be a starting major-league shortstop or a combination."
    Last edited by jmcclain19; 09-08-2004 at 03:46 AM.

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    Re: O'Brien to Larkin: "Your starting services are no longer needed"

    Larkin earned the right to start at SS at least 3 times per week. Larkin does well when he starts. Check the stats. Playing Lopez and Machado in the final 25 games isn't going to prove anything. Wow. 25 games.

    It is going to take Larkin 10 tries to make the HOF. He is close to reaching milestones such as George Davis' 451 doubles, career 200 hrs, Reese and Aparicio's runs scored, etc.

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    Glenn Braggs
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    Re: O'Brien to Larkin: "Your starting services are no longer needed"

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsRule30
    Larkin earned the right to start at SS at least 3 times per week. Larkin does well when he starts. Check the stats. Playing Lopez and Machado in the final 25 games isn't going to prove anything. Wow. 25 games.
    I depends which way you look at it.

    "They said they want to see Machado and Felipe Lopez splitting time at shortstop, but I think it's just their way of not letting me get out there to show what I can do this last month of the season," Larkin said.

    To me, this remark sounds a bit selfish - which just might be the cause of frustration - as Larkin is not the future shortstop for the Reds. But Lopez or Machado could be.

    If you state that playing Machado / Lopez 25 games means nothing, why should another 25 starts for Larkin mean something? And why are decisions each spring based on about 25 exhibition games? The games til October are meaningless for the Reds, so I understand that the team wants to take a closer look at some players, who like in Machado's case would not have been given a shot if the Reds still were in the pennant race. Machado will get some experience, learn some more things from the hitting coach and get some more (and needed) at bats, as the AAA season is over. If Machado impresses the rest of the season, the Reds have a better basis what to do with him (re-signing or not). Granted, Larkin is a considerable better hitter than both Lopez and Machado, but the younger players need every extra at bat and experience in the field they can get.

    25 games less played won't hurt Larkin's HOF chances, in my opinion. Either he is already in with his current lifetime stats or not. But creeping like in his case towards the next personal milestone while taking playing time away from his successors is something I do not welcome.

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    Re: O'Brien to Larkin: "Your starting services are no longer needed"

    Larkin needs those 25 more games more than Machado to bolster his HOF chances. Larkin is 8th all-time in runs scored by a shortstop and can move up to 6th all-time with 10 more runs. Larkin is 3 hrs away from 200. He is 48 hits away from 98th all-time and tying Sandberg.

    Larkin needs these milestones so he makes the HOF in 4-5 tries, rather than 9-10 tries.

    I don't see how 25 games for Machado are going to magically prove that he is the shortstop of the future. Let Machado prove himself in spring training. His stats suck in the minors. Benching Larkin is a major insult. If Machado was an awesome shortstop prospect, then I would support it, but he clearly isn't. Lopez is the SS of the future, not Machado.

    Also, I am stunned that Juan Castro has been stealing at-bats from Larkin even though Castro will probably leave as a free agent. Heck, even Darren Bragg has been stealing at-bats from Larkin by playing OF and forcing Freel to 3B and Lopez to SS. Larkin has to be pissed off.

    I will be amazed if Machado is starting at SS and playing everyday in 2005. He better not be a Rey Ordonez clone (worst hitter in history with 3000+ at-bats).
    Last edited by RedsRule30; 09-08-2004 at 05:06 AM.

  6. #5
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    Re: O'Brien to Larkin: "Your starting services are no longer needed"

    I can understand players WANTING to make the Hall of Fame, but my personal belief is that it should be up to the HOF voters to decide that. Larkin's job is to do the best he can do, and if his performance career-wise warrants a vote into the HOF, that is great news. If not, at least he had a great career and I'm sure achieved many of his personal goals.

    To me, tacking on 25 games for the sole reason of getting HOF status is the same as sitting out a bunch of games in order to preserve a high batting average, swinging for the fences on every single pitch in order to break a homerun record, moping all over the mound in order to throw off the timing of the hitter or to preserve energy.

    Barry needs to just step away from the game, and enjoy life. He's still healthy. Any one injury could change all that. He'll have no problem at all finding work elsewhere in baseball. Just not as a player. His time has come.

    I do think that a very small part of the front office's decsion to bench Larkin is due to the mistake they made in signing him to such a large contract at such a late point in his career, realizing that they should have all along put more effort into developing or acquiring someone to take Larkin's spot.

    Stepping aside from my allegiance to the Reds, I can see how in some ways Barry might not make the HOF. Sadly, he played in between eras, between the wizard of Oz, and the power hitting shortstops that we see today. That isn't his fault, but there is no guarantee that HOF voters will see it the way we do. All they will see is the numbers.

    Good luck, Barry, in all that you do in the future!

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    Re: O'Brien to Larkin: "Your starting services are no longer needed"

    It's amazing how 50 rbis and hits can improve a player's HOF chances. I guarantee that if Tony Perez had 100 fewer rbis, he wouldn't be in the HOF. Perez's sole claim to making the HOF was having the most rbis for a non-HOF player.

    Larkin will have fewer hits than Alan Trammell, Lou Whitaker, and Ryne Sandberg (lock for HOF in 2005 or 2006 IMO). That is really going to hurt.

    Why should a HOF voter select Larkin when Trammell and Whitaker aren't in the HOF? That is what some HOF voters are going to think.

    With 48 more hits, Larkin moves from 110th all-time to 98th all-time and drastically improves HOF chances.

    Machado is a mediocre hitting and fielding SS. My guess is that he may be moved to 2B if Jimenez gets non-tendered (good chance IMO).

    Expected 2005 Reds lineup.

    C: Larue (non-tendering Larue would be insanely stupid)
    1B: Casey
    2B: Machado (or Lopez, whatever)
    SS: Lopez
    3B: Freel (maybe Kearns, who knows)
    LF: Dunn
    CF: Pena
    RF: Griffey (maybe 1B if Casey traded)

    Edit: I think Larkin is actually a lock due to his stats from 1988-2000 (11 all-stars and 9 silver sluggers). I just don't want to see him wait 8-9 years rather than 4-5 years. HOF voters like to make a player wait extra long if a borderline case. Larkin's injury history and missed games are going to look bad.
    Last edited by RedsRule30; 09-08-2004 at 05:34 AM.

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    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: O'Brien to Larkin: "Your starting services are no longer needed"

    I have no problem, in theory, in benching Larkin, but there's no way that he should be benched in favor of Juan Castro, who for some reason keeps getting at bats.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

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    MarsArmyGirl RosieRed's Avatar
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    Re: O'Brien to Larkin: "Your starting services are no longer needed"

    Perhaps Barry will play (somewhere) next year and have a chance to gather those 50 hits and whatever else.

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    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: O'Brien to Larkin: "Your starting services are no longer needed"

    Quote Originally Posted by RosieRed
    Perhaps Barry will play (somewhere) next year and have a chance to gather those 50 hits and whatever else.
    Agreed.
    Go Gators!

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    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: O'Brien to Larkin: "Your starting services are no longer needed"

    Quote Originally Posted by RosieRed
    Perhaps Barry will play (somewhere) next year and have a chance to gather those 50 hits and whatever else.
    If he does I believe he lessens his HOF chances. People dig the fact that he has been with one team his whole career.
    The Rally Onion wants 150 fans before Opening Day.

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    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: O'Brien to Larkin: "Your starting services are no longer needed"

    Doesn't sound very good for his chances at landing a front office job after he retires.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    ~ Mark Twain

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    Time is the Revelator. LvJ's Avatar
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    Re: O'Brien to Larkin: "Your starting services are no longer needed"

    It's sad, but it's the right time. He can play, but he has been too risky with the injuries, and I for one want to see the new faces. Atleast Lopez. I think he will be a very talented short stop or 3rd basemen in the future. I would like to have Larkin return next year as a backup. I really love the guy. Every Reds fan should, but he needs to stop pulling a Michael Moore on us and drop the little conspiracy theories. It's getting old.
    "They said they want to see Machado and Felipe Lopez splitting time at shortstop, but I think it's just their way of not letting me get out there to show what I can do this last month of the season," Larkin said. "That'll make it easier for them this offseason."
    SHUT. UP. :dflynn:
    Hide your power alleys; Hide your wife

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    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: O'Brien to Larkin: "Your starting services are no longer needed"

    Well said, LvJ.
    Small market fan... always hoping, but never expecting.

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    Mod Law zombie-a-go-go's Avatar
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    Re: O'Brien to Larkin: "Your starting services are no longer needed"

    Good lord. I like Barry as much as the next guy, but he needs to realize that the Reds are more than just him. Barry, you are not "The Future." If he loves the club so much, why is he so upset at the club for trying to make his heir the best SS he can be? IIRC, back at the beginning of the season Larkin was talking his game about playing part-time and being on the club to show Lopez the ropes. I thought that was noble of him - this is petulant.

    Let it go, Barry. Please. You're endearing yourself to nobody.
    "It's easier to give up. I'm not a very vocal player. I lead by example. I take the attitude that I've got to go out and do it. Because of who I am, I've got to give everything I've got to come back."
    -Ken Griffey Jr.

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    Re: O'Brien to Larkin: "Your starting services are no longer needed"

    Quote Originally Posted by RFS62
    Doesn't sound very good for his chances at landing a front office job after he retires.
    Barry doesn't have much of a chance as long as JA is in charge IMO. He has made several disparaging remarks about the FO without naming names, but it was pretty clear the one most qualified to fit with the remarks was Allen. The article mentioned fielding is still tough for him with the abdominal injury, yet he makes a backhanded remark about being kept off the field. Like no one knows what Barry can still do. He is a real tool sometimes.


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