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Thread: AP is reporting that Larkin is not coming back...

  1. #46
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    Re: AP is reporting that Larkin is not coming back...

    Quote Originally Posted by princeton
    first sign that 2005 isn't really this week's plan, it was last week's plan
    I don't get this comment. How can anyone view the decision not to sign a 41-yr-old, oft injured shortstop (who can't play any other positions) as a bad thing?

    And for the Castro comments, please. The irrational Barry sentimentality is so overboard to be laughable. He's a big boy and will fit nicely in this bed of his own making.

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  3. #47
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    Re: AP is reporting that Larkin is not coming back...

    :thumbdown I really enjoyed watching Barry Larkin
    I'm not upset that he is gone, cause he is 41 and he was too old to play a full season. But are any of the other options ready?... I don't think they are. At least keep Barry around til we have another option!

  4. #48
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    Re: AP is reporting that Larkin is not coming back...

    Quote Originally Posted by BrooklynRedz
    I don't get this comment.
    it's simple. Young teams looking to compete immediately look for cheap, veteran players like Larkin with a history of success.

    Young teams looking to build for years beyond devote a lot of roster spots to unproven young players, and to players that they hope to deal for other unproven young players. This is the approach that the Reds'll take.

    I'm not saying that it's not the best approach for the Reds to take. But 2005 is not the goal, it's simply a far-flung hope.

    Here's the precise quote from last week: "I would say that 2005 is the focus," O'Brien said. "To make progress for 2005 is the goal. It isn't that we've lost focus for the long-term, far from it."

    Far from it, indeed. I'd argue that this move signifies the long-term to be both goal and focus. We'll go with worse players now in hopes that they'll become productive later, when Dunn and Kearns are elsewhere
    Last edited by princeton; 10-12-2004 at 03:45 PM.

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    Re: AP is reporting that Larkin is not coming back...

    Lopez (and even Machado) are way better options at SS than larkin at this stage of his career.

    I'm convinced that we are not going to improve enough unless our middle infield defense improves.

    I'm not certain that our pitching is really as bad as it appeared to be last year. After seeing hit after hit sneaking through the infield, I'm not all that sure that a great SS/2B combo couldn't save a run a game, which makes our pitching all of a sudden pretty good.

  6. #50
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    Re: AP is reporting that Larkin is not coming back...

    Decisions based on sentimental feelings has hurt this club the last four years.

    Thanks for the memories Barry, but the time has come to move on.
    If you think small, you'll go nowhere in life.

  7. #51
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    Re: AP is reporting that Larkin is not coming back...

    Princeton, I don't believe for a minute that Larkin would be pleased as a utility man on the Reds. He might accept that role elsewhere, but in Cincy he will simply whine every time he doesn't start.

    I do think his presence has been a hindrence because every year it looks like he is the shortstop; no other starting shortstop is acquired; no young kid is given the position. Then Larkin gets hurt and the team is left with backups and minor leaguers. This is the pattern and it has to end.

    If Larkin had turned himself into an outfielder, like Shawon Dunston did at the end of his career, it might make sense to carry him. He can still hit pretty well. But he just can't be the shortstop anymore, and that is his only position.

    As for Castro, he is an entirely different player. He handles every infield position well. He is not an offensive player, but a veteran stopgap all over the field. I think he has value and wouldn't mind his return, although I wouldn't mind seeing Olmedo get a shot at Castro's role.

    Whether the team is truly interested in 2005 remains to be seen.

  8. #52
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    Re: AP is reporting that Larkin is not coming back...

    I would agree that 2005 is not the goal. Signing Miley was also an indication of that as he has (so far) shown that as a major league manager he's a pretty good minor league instructor.

    Based on these two moves, I wouldn't expect to see the Reds spending much in the free agent market or make any blockbuster trades (unless they are getting 'prospects' back).

    Hope I'm wrong but......(shrug)

    Rem

  9. #53
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    Re: AP is reporting that Larkin is not coming back...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61
    Princeton, I don't believe for a minute that Larkin would be pleased as a utility man on the Reds. He might accept that role elsewhere, but in Cincy he will simply whine every time he doesn't start.

    I do think his presence has been a hindrence because every year it looks like he is the shortstop; no other starting shortstop is acquired; no young kid is given the position. Then Larkin gets hurt and the team is left with backups and minor leaguers. This is the pattern and it has to end.

    If Larkin had turned himself into an outfielder, like Shawon Dunston did at the end of his career, it might make sense to carry him. He can still hit pretty well. But he just can't be the shortstop anymore, and that is his only position.

    As for Castro, he is an entirely different player. He handles every infield position well. He is not an offensive player, but a veteran stopgap all over the field. I think he has value and wouldn't mind his return, although I wouldn't mind seeing Olmedo get a shot at Castro's role.

    Whether the team is truly interested in 2005 remains to be seen.
    he said that he'd accept a lesser role and play other positions if he got to play semi-regularly. I think that he expects a meritocracy in which the better player gets on the field. Most ballplayers want to be on such a team. Since the goal isn't 2005, the Reds won't be doing this. Machado is out of options, and we didn't care to risk Barry beating his pants off this spring.

  10. #54
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    Re: AP is reporting that Larkin is not coming back...

    Quote Originally Posted by princeton
    he said that he'd accept a lesser role and play other positions if he got to play semi-regularly.
    Yeah, he also said he was going to retire at the end of the 04' season. What Barry says isn't an indication of what he will actually do.
    Pessimists are well informed optimists

  11. #55
    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: AP is reporting that Larkin is not coming back...

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig
    Lopez (and even Machado) are way better options at SS than larkin at this stage of his career.

    I'm convinced that we are not going to improve enough unless our middle infield defense improves.

    I'm not certain that our pitching is really as bad as it appeared to be last year. After seeing hit after hit sneaking through the infield, I'm not all that sure that a great SS/2B combo couldn't save a run a game, which makes our pitching all of a sudden pretty good.
    Good comment and something I've been thinking for awhile. As I watch balls that other teams' infield get to, I keep thinking that our infield could be better defensively which would lead to less runners on base. And I think you can't leave Jiminez out of this, either. He's terribly slow on reaction time. Take away a run a game and you probably win ten more games. That wouldn't have been too bad of a season.
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  12. #56
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    Re: AP is reporting that Larkin is not coming back...

    I'm not sure it was the wrong decision, but to have this mumbling imbecilic coroporate stooge O'Brien basically fire Barry Larkin makes me absolutely sick to my stomach. :dflynn:

  13. #57
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    Re: AP is reporting that Larkin is not coming back...

    I'll take Freel -- nay, half a Freel -- over Larkin as the utility guy anyday. If Barry had truly been willing to "expand his versatility," we would have seen it last year. It's been a pattern. Under Boone they asked him to consider the OF, and while he gave the idea lip service, nothing ever happened. I think at this point Larkin is fixated on personal goals he can achieve as a SS.

    I actually think Castro will make a good mentor to Lopez and Machado, if both are here. Larkin likely would have been a problem, sulking over time on the bench.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  14. #58
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    Re: AP is reporting that Larkin is not coming back...



    I hope Barry plays for another team next season. I don't really see the Reds going anywhere near the playoffs for a long time(O'Brien ain't exactly Paul DePodesta) but hopefully Barry can be a back-up SS/in-fielder for a contender. Although I just like watching him play, so he could join the Kansas City Royals and I'd still be happy.
    "Announcing your plans is a good way to hear god laugh" -Al Swearengen, Deadwood

  15. #59
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: AP is reporting that Larkin is not coming back...

    Quote Originally Posted by CougarQuest
    I wish Barry would have stuck with the original plan; had his day and retired. Barry had a great year and should have gone out that way.
    The Reds have went through this for the last 2 years with Larkin. I don't think there was any interest in repeating it a 3rd time.

  16. #60
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: AP is reporting that Larkin is not coming back...

    Did O'Brien say anthing? I know he used a lot of words, but did he actually say anything?

    I almost fell asleep


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