AP is reporting that Larkin is not coming back...

[REDREAD]

yawn REDREAD, your classic nihilistic ranting, where did Barry Larkin not sign off Barry Larkin day? .

When did he ask for a day? Yawn right back at you

Are you going to deny that Allen has wanted to get rid of him for quite a while.

The guy was hitting .300 and was healthy up to that point. Even most of the people on the board liked him. So he started thinking about coming back one more year to the team he loved. Crucify him!

It amazes me of the hate some people have for Lark. That people are cheering this move as if we just acquired a 20 game winner.

Keeping Lark for next year might not have made the team significantly better, but cutting him certainly isn't going to improve a darn thing. More playing time for Romano.. hip hip horray Maybe Larson or Olmedo has a shot to make the roster now

[REDREAD]

OBP
Matsui .336
Larkin .344

SLG
Matsui .411
Larkin .403

OPS
Matsui .747
Larkin .747

Matsui's 17.3 more created runs before the asb is enough to show that he deserved it more, imo.

How does a marginally higher slug translate into roughly 50% more "created runs"? I'm not arguing, I just don't understand that stat.
Does it have to do with more plate appearances?

Based on the stats I understand, I can concede the two may be a push.
If you enlighten me a bit, maybe I'll see your point better.

[westofyou]

How does a marginally higher slug translate into roughly 50% more "created runs"? I'm not arguing, I just don't understand that stat.
Does it have to do with more plate appearances?

Based on the stats I understand, I can concede the two may be a push.
If you enlighten me a bit, maybe I'll see your point better.

Matsui had 100 extra AB's and 11 more steals and 15 more doubles at the break, thus more runs.

He also fielded poorly and looked poor at the dish for most of the season.

[flyer85]

Most of the young guys probably can't wait until they get expensive enough to get out of here.

absurd.

What will cause them to want to stay - winning
What will cause them to want to leave - continued losing

[Hubba]

When did he ask for a day? Yawn right back at you

Are you going to deny that Allen has wanted to get rid of him for quite a while.

The guy was hitting .300 and was healthy up to that point. Even most of the people on the board liked him. So he started thinking about coming back one more year to the team he loved. Crucify him!

It amazes me of the hate some people have for Lark. That people are cheering this move as if we just acquired a 20 game winner.

Keeping Lark for next year might not have made the team significantly better, but cutting him certainly isn't going to improve a darn thing. More playing time for Romano.. hip hip horray Maybe Larson or Olmedo has a shot to make the roster now

I think that most turned on Larkin because of his constant whinning. (Hint.Hint)

[flyer85]

The Reds have never made a serious attempt to replace Larkin.

So they acquired Lopez? Traded because the Jays thought he would never cut it as a everyday SS and he had lost his job to Woodward(not very good in his own right).

Maybe at 25 Lopez is possibly ready to play SS everyday, but it is also likely his defense won't cut it. There is no way Machado is ready to play everyday in the majors. Only other choices are Olmedo and DJ.
The reason Barry has been the SS for the last 4 years in because he was being paid a lot of money(until this year) and they never brought in any serious competition.

[4256 Hits]

By the way, I bet the 25th man is MUCH better than Castro.

I will take that bet. Because this move assures that Machado will make the team and Larkin will out OPS him next year. It wouldn't even surprise me if he even out OPS Freel (IMO just had a career year) next year, like he did this year. For those that don't know Larkin had an OPS of .771 this year. Players w/ over 100 abs only 4 had that of high OPS (Griffey, Dunn, Pena, Casey). So in other words the Reds just declined to sign there 5 best player who I am sure would have signed for under 1 mil. Not good.

Here is a list of player that played for the Reds last year that Larkin was clearly better than. Not that they will be with the Reds next year but I bet simular players will be.

Ray Olmedo
Corky Miller
John Vander Wal
Jermaine Clark
Jason Romano
Darren Bragg
Jacob Cruz
Tim Hummel
Brandon Larson
Javier Valentín
Juan Castro
Anderson Machado

So the Reds need to go out and get 12 players better than Larkin to make not having Larkin on the team not make the Reds better. Since in the past year DanO. hasn't brought in one player better than Larkin my guess he isn't going to find 12!

[Caseyfan21]

I hope Larkin catches on with either an NL Central team or the Cleveland Indians. The Indians need a cheap veteran to mentor their youngsters so he could be a good fit.

All I want to see is Barry come into GABP with an opponent's uniform and then play a big role in beating the Reds. Maybe getting rid of Larkin was the right move, but it was handled about as wrongly as it could be. I hope Lark comes into Cincy with an opponent and shoves it to the Reds. It would be great to hear the cheers he gets while beating the Reds and their pathetic PR morons in the front office.

[RFS62]

I sure hope Barry doesn't finish his career like Willie Mays, hanging on too long.

I hated seeing Willie in a Mets uniform, basically sucking in the outfield.

[WVRedsFan]

I sure hope Barry doesn't finish his career like Willie Mays, hanging on too long.

I hated seeing Willie in a Mets uniform, basically sucking in the outfield.

That is my hope also. I won't argue that Larkin is the superior of every infielder we have when he is healthy. I won't argue that keeping Juan Castro and giving the boot to Larkin (for essentially the same money) is way stupid. Almost criminal.

I will say that sometimes you have to understand that when it's time to go, you need to do it when you are on top. My father retired young and when asked why, he always said, "because I'm still productive. I don't want anyone talking behind my back on how that old fart is losing it."

I wish so much that this FO had the ability to manage public relations with the general public and the players, but they do not. The ideal thing would have been to give Larkin some position with the Reds, but instead, they chose to not communicate with him, so Barry communicated for them. There should have been a way to have ended this thing without the bloodshed. These guys are so clueless it defies explanation.

But I hope Barry does the right thing and hangs it up, but I doubt there is any chance in that happening. He's been wounded by this organization. He has something to prove.

[kheidg-]

Does anyone actually think that Barry will go elsewhere to sign? Would any team make him their #1 short stop? Didn't something like this happen last year before they finally signed him a bit later?
I don't understand the fact why Allen/DanO/Miley would say, "No we don't want you to come back under any circumstances." IMO, he could serve a good role on this team (or any team) as a bat off the bench.

[johngalt]

Who was the 3rd best SS at the time then, if it wasn't Lark?
How come Lark didn't get an automatic bid in 2003 when they thought that might be his last year?

Izturis would have been a decent choice in my opinion. Or even not another shortstop at all. Ramirez, Dunn, Overbay....any of those guys would have been better choices rather than forcing a third shortstop.

To say that Lark waited to cancel his retire until after he got his "entilement" as an All star is pretty low man. Larkin never announced his retirement for this year. John Allen did. He scheduled Larkin day as a way to finally kick him out the door.

All during Spring Training and the early part of the season Larkin talked about this being his last year. After they re-signed him last year it was pretty much agreed this would be his last year. It's not like Barry was always saying he wasn't sure and all this. That's not to say that he doesn't have a right to change his mind, but he did say on multiple occasions 2004 was the end.

[johngalt]

I don't think that it's career suicide to criticize dumb baseball management. Maybe he won't work for this FO, but there'll be others, and he'll be proven correct.

I'll be SHOCKED if Larkin ever lasts more than a year in a front office job anywhere.

[EKURed]

Here it is point blank...they made an agreement with Larkin last year that this would be his final year and they scheduled a day for him. It was his choice to cancel it, not the Reds'. The Reds made it clear last year that this year would be it. It's time to move on. Larkin would have never accepted a utility role here...and the Reds can't have their shortstop hopefully play 100 games. It's time....I don't feel the least bit sorry for Barry Larkin. I enjoyed watching him play, but the Reds paid him about 10-15 million more over his last multi-year deal than anyone in baseball would have paid him. Larkin had his chance here to go out with fan fare, but he chose to go another direction. Good luck to him, but it's time to move on...I agree with the Reds' decision.

[RedsBaron]

I sure hope Barry doesn't finish his career like Willie Mays, hanging on too long.

I hated seeing Willie in a Mets uniform, basically sucking in the outfield.

More often than not, great players seem to go out the way Mays did, having hung on too long, than the way Ted Williams did, with a HR in his final at bat capping off a .316 year with 29 HRs. The money is too good and the players love the game and the life of a star too much to leave early.
Babe Ruth retired as a Boston Brave, hitting .181. Hank Aaron hit all of 10 HRs his final season, as a Brewer. Steve Carlton seemed to be trying to play for every team in the majors his final season, as he would be released only to catch on with another team (lucky Lefty finished that year as an invisible member of the 1987 World Champion Twins).
Berra, Greenberg, Morgan, Killebrew, Frank Robinson, Seaver, Cobb, Speaker, Duke Snider, Mathewson.....the list is long of superstars who hung around too long and who finished their careers somewhere other than with the team where they achieved their greatest glory. To change sports, for every John Elway who departs on top a champion, there are countless superstars who stumble into retirement; even Michael Jordan, who had the perfect exit from the Bulls, decided to later return to a less than glorious finish with another team.
I respect what Larkin accomplished with the Reds. If I was allowed to vote, I would vote for his induction into the Hall of Fame. However, IMO, it is time to turn the page.