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Thread: AP is reporting that Larkin is not coming back...

  1. #121
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    Re: AP is reporting that Larkin is not coming back...

    I'll miss Barry, but I think it is time to assess other options.

    I hope Barry catches on with a winner and plays a big role in October 2005. :gac:

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  3. #122
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    Re: AP is reporting that Larkin is not coming back...

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig
    Lopez (and even Machado) are way better options at SS than larkin at this stage of his career.

    I'm convinced that we are not going to improve enough unless our middle infield defense improves.

    I'm not certain that our pitching is really as bad as it appeared to be last year. After seeing hit after hit sneaking through the infield, I'm not all that sure that a great SS/2B combo couldn't save a run a game, which makes our pitching all of a sudden pretty good.
    This is my problem right here. With a healthy Larkin, the Reds are 10 or 12 games over .500 and he is hitting .300. With a healthy Lopez, they are some big number under .500 and he is not hitting .300. I know there were other factors, but Larkin was very good early on, even if a little limited defensively (at least he didn't commitm errors).

    In a sense, Larkin is ideal, because, when healthy he is your best option and you can play him only part time. When hurt, he allows the kids to play and he is a great mentor. And it wouldn't have cost much to keep him around to fill those roles.

  4. #123
    Member Spring~Fields's Avatar
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    Re: AP is reporting that Larkin is not coming back...

    Quote Originally Posted by HermW
    In a sense, Larkin is ideal, because, when healthy he is your best option and you can play him only part time. When hurt, he allows the kids to play and he is a great mentor. And it wouldn't have cost much to keep him around to fill those roles.
    The positives above is what good veteran bench players can contribute to a team. I am shocked that Vanderwal was rated higher than Larkin in a sense.

  5. #124
    getting younger alloverjr's Avatar
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    Re: AP is reporting that Larkin is not coming back...

    It seems to me that if Barry was so disgruntled with the FO - and judging by his comments has for a while - this should be a happy day for him. He can try to go play somewhere else instead. It appears he went about this the wrong way one too many times. How many here think that if he would not have publically criticized the organization that he might be back for '05? I'm glad Barry cares about winning, so do I. That's why I'm glad he's not coming back next year. He had an awful time playing the reserve part late in the year. He's not use to that, and probably never would be. Nice stay in Cincy Barry. Good luck next year.
    This place use to be fun

  6. #125
    15 game winner Danny Serafini's Avatar
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    Re: AP is reporting that Larkin is not coming back...

    Quote Originally Posted by HermW
    This is my problem right here. With a healthy Larkin, the Reds are 10 or 12 games over .500 and he is hitting .300. With a healthy Lopez, they are some big number under .500 and he is not hitting .300. I know there were other factors, but Larkin was very good early on, even if a little limited defensively (at least he didn't commitm errors).
    That's not fair to Lopez at all. There were a whole lot of things that caused the record to go downhill, it's not like Lopez showed up and dragged the team down 20 games in the standings.

  7. #126
    getting younger alloverjr's Avatar
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    Re: AP is reporting that Larkin is not coming back...

    Quote Originally Posted by HermW
    This is my problem right here. With a healthy Larkin, the Reds are 10 or 12 games over .500 and he is hitting .300. With a healthy Lopez, they are some big number under .500 and he is not hitting .300. I know there were other factors, but Larkin was very good early on, even if a little limited defensively (at least he didn't commitm errors).

    Coincidentally, the staff as a whole were pitching out of their collective minds. Lark was playing well early, no doubt. But their were 15 other things that were going right early when the Reds were in 1st, and Barry was just a part of that.
    This place use to be fun

  8. #127
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    Re: AP is reporting that Larkin is not coming back...

    What is coincidence is that Barry Larkin IS the only person at any level in this organization that has been part of a World Championship team in Cincinnati... ever.

    Now he is being associated with the thought that he has been part of this team that is a loser... so a change must be needed.

    Maybe the Allen's of the World are the ones who don't know how to win.... not Larkin.

    It's a sad day for Cincinnati fans everywhere... the only connection to a Championship is now gone.

  9. #128

    Re: AP is reporting that Larkin is not coming back...

    Quote Originally Posted by johngalt
    Yes, we need more Barry Larkins...

    -We need more guys who refuse to go on the DL b/c they "might be able to go" at some point in the next 14 days.

    -We need more guys who undercut virtually everything the front office says and takes slams at them on a consistent basis in the media rather than in private.

    -We need more guys who put their batting average and statistics over the development of the team's future.

    -We need more guys who complain anytime one of their boys gets traded, regardless of what it means to the team's present and future.

    -We need more guys who turn everything into a players vs. management/coaches environment.

    -We need more guys who are unwilling to move to or learn another position to make room for others and make themselves more versatile.

    Shall I continue?
    You can't be talking about sweet little Barry Larkin. I couldn't have said it better myself.
    HUBBA A man who knows everything,just can't remember it all at one time.

  10. #129
    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: AP is reporting that Larkin is not coming back...

    For a world class athlete, quitting the central focus of your life is an agonizing decision. How do you hang up the spikes when you've played at the level Larkin has for so many years? How do you judge objectively what's left in the tank, when by definition, your confidence and belief in yourself is part and parcel of what made you great to begin with?

    Barry isn't qualified to judge himself. He has to believe he can still do it, or he wouldn't be hanging on. That doesn't mean his assessment is accurate, or for that matter, inaccurate. It just means he can't be impartial and make a businesslike decision.

    So it's left to the front offices of baseball to decide. The Reds front office, for several reasons, have decided to pass.

    We'll see if he is a good fit for another organization soon.

    The thing that has stuck in my craw about this whole process is Barry's insistance that he would like a front office job once he retires. If that is true, then he is painfully naive about the world of business. You don't publically slam the organization you want a job with if you are a businessman. You don't take public your disagreements. I would be very afraid to hire Barry Larkin in the front office if I were DanO. I would expect more of the same, taking your criticisms public to get your way. He's done it time and time again.

    I'm sure many think that is a good approach, to hold the Front Office's feet to the fire and demand excellence. I think it's career suicide if he ever wanted to work for the Reds.

    I don't think it's been a very well thought out strategy to get that front office job he says he wants.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    ~ Mark Twain

  11. #130
    I hate the Cubs LoganBuck's Avatar
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    Re: AP is reporting that Larkin is not coming back...

    It is a simple as this, Barry is old, and surly. Everyone complained all year about the Reds playing with 23 or 24 players often. Larkin was one of the main reasons for that. He had many day to day injuries. Sure he can still swing the bat, but his speed is diminished and so is his range in the field. He is unwilling to play other positions, and showed poorly when moved to a pinch hitter role down the strech this year. Is it a coincedence as well that the team performed better over the latter streches of the season with Lopez and Machado, adding an element of speed that Larkin no longer has. Lopez and Machado, at the end of the careers will be lucky to have done half of what Larkin has done, but the facts remain, they are not 41, they have speed, more range, are cheaper, and may or may not be any good. But I know that Miley will have alot less on his mind now that he doesn't have to worry about sharing his Metamucil with Larkin, or his arthritis medicine. Odds are that Lopez and/or Machado will be healthy enough to go everyday.

    Castro should be the next out the door as well.

  12. #131
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: AP is reporting that Larkin is not coming back...

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor
    C'mon, REDREAD and Princeton, surely you don't think Larkin was chosen to the AS game based on merit? That is rewriting history. He was picked because it was his last year (horse) and then he said "cancel my retirement, I'm an All-Star baby" (cart)

    Again, we are debating the 25th player on the Reds roster, Larkin over Castro
    Who was the 3rd best SS at the time then, if it wasn't Lark?
    How come Lark didn't get an automatic bid in 2003 when they thought that might be his last year?

    To say that Lark waited to cancel his retire until after he got his "entilement" as an All star is pretty low man. Larkin never announced his retirement for this year. John Allen did. He scheduled Larkin day as a way to finally kick him out the door.

    If you can't see why Larkin is better than Castro, consider the help Lark gave to Lopez and Pena this year. And I can also say the Reds will have worse players than Castro and Larkin next year.. (Castro or Lark won't be the 25th player, there will be worse).
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  13. #132
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    Re: AP is reporting that Larkin is not coming back...

    Quote Originally Posted by RFS62
    I'm sure many think that is a good approach, to hold the Front Office's feet to the fire and demand excellence. I think it's career suicide if he ever wanted to work for the Reds.
    I think that you're probably right about Larkin's naivete. The other idea is that he's crazy like a fox. IIRC, Larry Dierker critiqued a dumb Houston regime so effectively that he was hired to manage the club. Oester sent parting shots in Cincy, then was hired back within a couple of years. You can get away with it when regimes fall.

    I don't think that it's career suicide to criticize dumb baseball management. Maybe he won't work for this FO, but there'll be others, and he'll be proven correct.

    and he's better off working for someone a lot smarter than these guys

  14. #133
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    Re: AP is reporting that Larkin is not coming back...

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD
    Who was the 3rd best SS at the time then, if it wasn't Lark?
    How come Lark didn't get an automatic bid in 2003 when they thought that might be his last year?

    To say that Lark waited to cancel his retire until after he got his "entilement" as an All star is pretty low man. Larkin never announced his retirement for this year. John Allen did. He scheduled Larkin day as a way to finally kick him out the door.

    If you can't see why Larkin is better than Castro, consider the help Lark gave to Lopez and Pena this year. And I can also say the Reds will have worse players than Castro and Larkin next year.. (Castro or Lark won't be the 25th player, there will be worse).
    yawn REDREAD, your classic nihilistic ranting, where did Barry Larkin not sign off Barry Larkin day? A specialized Fantasy created by you to continously slamming the FO? Barry screwed Barry. Deal

    By the way, I bet the 25th man is MUCH better than Castro.

  15. #134
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: AP is reporting that Larkin is not coming back...

    Quote Originally Posted by BrooklynRedz
    but he's hardly done much for morale in the clubhouse with his negative comments about the FO. .
    Well, we better dump Casey too. He's been critical of the FO.
    Just about everyone left after the 2003 fire sale were critical.

    Some of the players have said nothing, but has any player come out and supported the Reds' front office. I can't recall any player saying, "I like the direction this club is going in".

    In fact, I bet Dunn, Kearns, and everyone else is probably ticked off at this move. Most of the young guys probably can't wait until they get expensive enough to get out of here. Remember how happy Reitsma was (and some of the other jettisoned players?). We'll probably see that with Dunn/Kearns as well.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  16. #135
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    Re: AP is reporting that Larkin is not coming back...

    Maybe Kurt Stilwell will get his shot at SS finally.

    Pay attention to the open sky


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