Why the rush to trade? Is he out of options?
Why the rush to trade? Is he out of options?
If this is true, is the writing on the wall for Jimminez? I'm guessing Jimmeniz will get close to 3 million in 2005. Walker was shipped out when he got that pricey.The Reds won't be able to take on the entire $12.95 million still owed Hinske over the next three seasons -- $3 million next season, $4.325 million in 2006 and $5.625 million in 2007 -- so the Jays will have to agree to pay part of it to make a trade.
Granted though, if Hinske doesn't improve, Jimmeniz is a better player.
I'm going to buck the trend and say I wouldn't trade Graves for
Hinske. The problem is that we need help in the bullpen too.
The premise of unloading Graves is to get 7 million in payflex
to more efficiently spend on other pitching. If you could talk
the Jays into taking Graves (doubtful), there's no way they'd
subsidize Hinske's contract (my guess).
So, you unload Graves, but due to Hinske's contract, you really
haven't gained much payflex. In theory, you have 4 million for 2005,
but my guess is that Allen would hold on to that to pay off the rest
of Hinske's contract.
The other line of thought is that once you get Hinske, you could move Hinske elsewhere and
get the Graves' payflex.. but Hinske was that easy to move, wouldn't
the Jays move him there instead of accepting Graves?
So, trading Graves kills the pen and gets you a mediocre 3b (assuming
he doesn't get new life in Cincy).
The only reason this trade talk is alive is because Toronto is so desparate
to move Hinske that they'll eat a chunk of his contract. If we can get
him for a few mediocre prospects and he's heavily subsidized, then sure,
the Reds should do it. But, IMO, the bullpen is so thin that losing Graves
would cost us more wins than Hinske would add.
Thank you Walt and Bob for bringing winning baseball back to Cincy -- it was nice while it lasted..
Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!
I would have to agree here. As much as I groan at the thought of Graves closing for another season, I don't see how this trade would strengthen us all that much, especially since we'd be back to square one with fitting in all of the outfielders.Originally Posted by REDREAD
Aside from that, if Graves has another really good first half save wise and the Reds aren't in the race, he might still be able to fetch something good at the deadline from a team who really needs bullpen help. His contract will be almost over after all and that might make it easier to make a deal then.
If the Reds could get Hinske at a low return while having the Jays pay a portion of his contract, it's worth the gamble.
If you think small, you'll go nowhere in life.
I'm with Redread, why dump Graves to spend it on Hinske. DG will probably win more games next year.
The widow is gathering nettles for her children's dinner; a perfumed seigneur, delicately lounging in the Oeil de Boeuf, hath an alchemy whereby he will extract the third nettle and call it rent. ~ Carlyle
I find it hard to believe that Ricchardi would take Graves on. It's probably a straight up dump on Toronto's part, and they think the Reds are dumb enough to take the bait.
Not that Hinske's the worst they can do, but there is no way they can lose a guy like Jimmenez in the deal....And I'd also wonder which prospects (if any) 'ol J.P.'s got his eyes on. The Reds might be wise to really look closely at what they'd be giving away.
"Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?" ~ Jim Bouton
Don't know much about Hinske. I do think it is a good idea to have a professional third baseman on the team. Last year's team did not have one.
Somebody who can field the position and hit decently in the seventh spot.
the real question is if the Reds got him, and he went back to his rookie form, what becomes of Encarnacion?Code:Year AB H 2B 3B HR BB K SB OBP SLG AVG 2002 566 158 38 2 24 77 138 13 365 481 279 2003 449 109 45 3 12 59 104 12 329 437 243 2004 570 140 23 3 15 54 109 12 312 375 246 Total 1585 407 106 8 51 190 351 37 336 430 257
Exactly. I'm not convinced this team has a hole at 3rd base (freel, Lopez, Kearns) that needs filled by anything less than a bonefide superstar.Originally Posted by M2
This team needs top-shelf pitching.
The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. -- Terrance Mann (Field of Dreams)
Great, so the Reds get sloppy seconds.Originally Posted by Doc. Scott
MLB player's Range Factor at 3B who had 81 or more games at the positon...and the myriad of players Cincinnati had. i'm pretty sure Lopez and Hummel are skewed very much (judging by their career numbers there) by having played less than 30 games at 3BCode:Freel 3.42 Lopez 3.16 Chavez 3.10 Castilla 3.08 Tracy 3.07 Rolen 3.06 Hummel 2.99 Beltre 2.97 Bell 2.88 Randa 2.87 Mora 2.83 Alfonzo 2.78 Munson 2.77 Castro 2.69 Batista 2.65 Blake 2.64 Jones 2.64 Lowell 2.64 Burroughs 2.62 Wigginton 2.62 Koskie 2.56 Huff 2.53 Mueller 2.53 Blalock 2.50 Larson 2.45 Crede 2.43 Hinske 2.40 Ensberg 2.39 Rodriguez 2.39 Ramirez 2.26
This must be all the buzz today, third different website I've seen that's brought it up
Wonder if there is a baseball reporter hotline that JP Ricciardi keeps calling and leaving messages that this trade is going onCBC SPORTS ONLINE - Corey Koskie couldn't lead the Minnesota Twins to the American League Championship Series with a strong post-season, but may have increased his market value.
According to Wednesday's Toronto Sun, the Blue Jays are said to be serious about trading third baseman Eric Hinske to Cincinnati, which doesn't boast an everyday player at the position.
In turn, the Jays would pursue Koskie, who is set to become a free agent after the season. Anaheim's Troy Glaus is expected to be another sought-after free agent.
Koskie, 31, batted .308 with two runs batted in during Minnesota's divisional series loss to the New York Yankees. That followed a disappointing season at the plate by his standards (.251, 25 home runs, 71 RBIs in 118 games).
Hinske, on the other hand, hit .246 this season with 15 homers, 69 RBIs and 109 strikeouts in 570 at-bats. A far cry from 2002 when the 27-year-old batted .279 and slugged 24 HRs and 84 RBIs to win AL rookie of the year honours.
It's believed the Reds wouldn't be able to shoulder the entire $12.95 million still owed on Hinske's five-year contract signed during the 2002 off-season, so Toronto would have to pick up some salary to complete a deal.
Former No. 1 pick Brandon Larson started the season at third base for Cincinnati and was later released. Juan Castro, Tim Hummell and former Blue Jay Ryan Freel also had stints on the corner.
Koskie, a native of Anola, Man., has never returned to his form of 2001 when he hit .276 with a career-high 26 HRs and 103 RBIs. Injuries also have prevented Koskie, who earned $4.5 million US this season, from playing more than 140 games in each of the last three seasons.
He missed 35 games in 2004 with injuries to his wrist, sternum and ankle. He also suffered from on-and-off back pain.
However, Koskie did have a .342 on-base percentage, a favourite statistical category of Jays general manager J.P. Ricciardi. Hinske's on-base percentage was .312.
The Reds should sign Koskie
My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!
None of this third base talk helps our biggest need PITCHING lets not take our eye off the REAL PROBLEM. GO CINCY!!!!!
That is a problem I would not mind havingOriginally Posted by Ravenlord
Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.