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Thread: Your Official 2004 Election Day Thread

  1. #466
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: Your Official 2004 Election Day Thread

    I hope M2 doesn't mind me posting this, but I think he was dead on clear back in January and had a lot of foresight in what he was saying.


    Let me relate a quick story of my own. In that 1996 Kerry-Weld race, I was part of an editorial board that interviewed both candidates for endorsement purposes. Kerry's interview was painful. He didn't provide a single direct answer over the course of a 90-minute discussion. When asked for specifics, he'd heap on more generalizations. When asked about his many flip-flops, he couldn't provide an ounce of clarity. And aloof doesn't begin to describe the man's manner. He was unable to connect with anything other than the blather coming out of his mouth. In contrast, Weld was personable, forthright and direct.

    Every single person on that editorial board liked Weld better and believed he was the superior candidate. Yet there was just one problem. This is Massachusetts and folks around here loath the national Republican party. They'll vote for Republican governors as a check against a Democratic legislature, which generally runs the state, yet no way did anyone want any part of a Senator who'd be falling in line with Trent Lott and Newt Gingrich. The one thing Weld wouldn't do was draw a clear line as to when he'd tell his national party to get lost (New England has a number of Republican senators and most have made a habit of doing just that). Over the years, I've talked with people who sat in similar interviews with Kerry and Weld and faced a similar dilemma. Ultimately Weld's refusal to break ranks cost him a slew of endorsements. Ironically, it was his own party that screwed him in the end when he couldn't get a hearing scheduled after Clinton appointed him ambassador to Mexico. See what loyalty will get you in politics?

    Anyway, for my paper I had the unpleasant task of writing the editorial endorsement. It was a hot potato and it wound up in my lap. The gist of what I wrote was that we were fairly disappointed in Kerry, but he could at least be counted on to tow the party line on key social issues because it would botch all chances of him seeking higher office if he didn't. Kerry's campaign, in a fitting display of disconnectedness, actually copied the endorsement and passed it around at rallies and as part of its press packet.

    His office is notoriously bad on things like constituent services and rarely lends more than token support to other Democrats seeking office (in other words, he's got a reputation as a bad party guy).

    I know the Dems are trying to have a love affair with the guy, but I can tell you right now he's every bit as bad a candidate as Mike Dukakis was in 1988.

    If you're a Bush backer, you should be overjoyed that Kerry's run out front in the Democratic race.
    And I'm among the more liberal posters on this board. So I don't need a primer on what's wrong with Bush.

    My complaint about Kerry isn't that he's a snob. It's that he's evasive, non-committal and disconnected. If you look at his track record, other than sitting on various committees, he's a fairly undistinguished legislator. He certainly hasn't risked his political capital to champion many causes in his career. That he may be no more evasive than Bush isn't a reason to vote for him.

    And people tend to like him less the more they get to know him. I'm not alone in this and it's not just the media. I covered the state Democratic convention two years after Kerry beat Weld, a race where people busted their tails to help Kerry win, and, in a year when the governorship was there for the taking, Kerry didn't give 'em much more than a drive-by. The general reaction from party members? "What do you expect from Kerry? There's nothing in it for him."

    If Kerry salts this nomination away by the early March, we'll be treated to eight months of watching a candidate disintegrate. He's going to make it hard for lifelong Democrats to pull his lever let alone independents.

    I'm just giving folks a warning. If you really want someone to beat Bush in November, John Kerry isn't the person to do it.

    I don't think he's a bad guy per se so much as a typical, self-interested politician. He's a fine campaigner and a successful political animal, but I've never met anyone, not one person, who expressed confidence that things would swing their way because John Kerry was on their side. He's as wishy-washy as they come, a technocrat of the first order.

    The Democrats may be on the verge of nominating an empty suit. No one loves this guy.
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

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  3. #467
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Your Official 2004 Election Day Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by creek14
    I don't blame him. CBS and CNN still won't give Ohio to Bush. Many times things become clearer with the light of day. I would imagne that was the case with the Kerry camp.
    I believe that Kerry has shown some class by conceding at this point. Putting the country through a protracted recount with no realistic hope of overturning the result would have been pointless, and I respect Kerry's decision to now concede.
    However, Dan Rather's CBS still shows on its website that Bush has only 254 electoral votes, so it appears CBS is not yet ready to concede.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

  4. #468
    C-A-T-S CATS! CATS! CATS! WVRed's Avatar
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    Re: Your Official 2004 Election Day Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsBaron
    I believe that Kerry has shown some class by conceding at this point. Putting the country through a protracted recount with no realistic hope of overturning the result would have been pointless, and I respect Kerry's decision to now concede.
    However, Dan Rather's CBS still shows on its website that Bush has only 254 electoral votes, so it appears CBS is not yet ready to concede.
    CBS's has Bush with 274 electoral votes(Ohio and Nevada)
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.

  5. #469
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Your Official 2004 Election Day Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM
    I hope M2 doesn't mind me posting this, but I think he was dead on clear back in January and had a lot of foresight in what he was saying.
    M2's analysis was obviously excellent. Each party has a problem in coming up with a candidate who can bridge the gap and appeal to voters on the other side. I don't believe that Howard Dean would have had any more appeal to red state voters than Kerry had, and, other than John McCain, there are not a lot of Republicans who are both sufficently conservative to hold the G.O.P. base together and still appeal to those in blue states.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

  6. #470
    Pagan/Asatru Ravenlord's Avatar
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    Re: Your Official 2004 Election Day Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TeamCasey
    What is a more appropriate voting age for you guys?

    Seems to me that if you can fight in a war, you should be able to vote.
    18 or 20...and the drinking age, voting age, and drafting age should all come about at the same time.
    the store for all your blade, costuming (in any regard), leather (also in any regard), and steel craft needs.www.facebook.com/tdhshop


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  7. #471
    Smells Like Teen Spirit jmcclain19's Avatar
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    Re: Your Official 2004 Election Day Thread

    So anyone else want to take a stab at what's next for Kerry?

    The Senate Minority Leader's job is suddenly open.

    John Edwards, on the other hand, will have to figure out some way he can stay in the spotlight for the next four years.

  8. #472
    Team Puffy Leadoff Hitter CbusRed's Avatar
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    Re: Your Official 2004 Election Day Thread

    Once again, we have stood up and demonstrated to an extreme liberal candidate that he is out of touch with the principles, values, and beliefs of the average citizen. And it didn't end there. We stood up and made our voices heard in the Senate and House of Representatives races as well. This is a great day for conservative America. We have given OUR President a clear mandate to continue to lead our country. I am glowing with pride in my country today...

    :gac:

  9. #473
    I thought you'd be bigger OldXOhio's Avatar
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    Re: Your Official 2004 Election Day Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsBaron
    other than John McCain, there are not a lot of Republicans who are both sufficently conservative to hold the G.O.P. base together and still appeal to those in blue states.
    I would argue the GOP might come apart at its seems if McCain were to be its nominee.

    2008 ought to be very interesting.
    Originally Posted by nate
    Chapman can be downright pornographic at times.

  10. #474
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Your Official 2004 Election Day Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jmcclain19
    So anyone else want to take a stab at what's next for Kerry?

    The Senate Minority Leader's job is suddenly open.

    John Edwards, on the other hand, will have to figure out some way he can stay in the spotlight for the next four years.
    Kerry can go back to doing nothing, er I mean his Senatorial seat.

  11. #475
    Member Cedric's Avatar
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    Re: Your Official 2004 Election Day Thread

    I love America. They stood up and supported moral and ethical values. At the end of the day it's not about foreign policy or anything else, it's about morals.

  12. #476
    C-A-T-S CATS! CATS! CATS! WVRed's Avatar
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    Re: Your Official 2004 Election Day Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by CbusRed
    Once again, we have stood up and demonstrated to an extreme liberal candidate that he is out of touch with the principles, values, and beliefs of the average citizen. And it didn't end there. We stood up and made our voices heard in the Senate and House of Representatives races as well. This is a great day for conservative America. We have given OUR President a clear mandate to continue to lead our country. I am glowing with pride in my country today...

    :gac:


    It will be interesting to see how the Dems regroup after this episode. They were pretty divided as it is, just with one goal in mind, to beat Bush, and not only did they lose in that regard, they lost several seats in the Senate and House trying to run a smear campaign against Bush.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.

  13. #477
    RZ Chamber of Commerce Unassisted's Avatar
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    Re: Your Official 2004 Election Day Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jmcclain19
    So anyone else want to take a stab at what's next for Kerry?

    The Senate Minority Leader's job is suddenly open.
    I think Kerry's on the committee track and usually that twain doesn't meet the leadership track, so Daschle's job probably will fall to Harry Reid of Nevada, the minority whip. I don't see Kerry running again in '08. Teddy found his Senate seat to be a good place to go out to pasture and I suspect that Kerry will, too.

    John Edwards, on the other hand, will have to figure out some way he can stay in the spotlight for the next four years.
    Edwards probably got to shake a lot of wealthy donor hands in the last few months. He'll be busy quietly fundraising for another run in 2008.
    Last edited by Unassisted; 11-03-2004 at 01:39 PM.
    /r/reds

  14. #478
    I thought you'd be bigger OldXOhio's Avatar
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    Re: Your Official 2004 Election Day Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jmcclain19
    So anyone else want to take a stab at what's next for Kerry?

    The Senate Minority Leader's job is suddenly open.

    John Edwards, on the other hand, will have to figure out some way he can stay in the spotlight for the next four years.
    I think the media's critique of what went wrong with the Kerry campaign ought to keep the Breck girl in the spotlight at least for another month. My question is what effect will this have on Edwards' potential as the candidate in 2008? I would think one criticism of him has to be that he really lent zero to Kerry's chances.
    Originally Posted by nate
    Chapman can be downright pornographic at times.

  15. #479
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: Your Official 2004 Election Day Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric
    I love America. They stood up and supported moral and ethical values. At the end of the day it's not about foreign policy or anything else, it's about morals.
    Respectfully, I've heard a lot of this and I do't understand it. I was no fan of Kerry, but I don't think he was immoral. Much of the Democratic party shares most of these same "values and morals" Republicans stake a claim too. I think it's a perception issue.
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

  16. #480
    Smells Like Teen Spirit jmcclain19's Avatar
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    Re: Your Official 2004 Election Day Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by OldXOhio
    I would argue the GOP might come apart at its seems if McCain were to be its nominee.

    2008 ought to be very interesting.
    McCain won't run in 2008.

    You can consider this my firm prediction.

    The rumor out here in AZ is that he won't finish his term he was elected to just last night.

    His skin cancer has gotten progressively worse the last few years, just earlier this year he had a sizable piece taken out of his forehead, not far from the spot he had when he was running for President in 2000.


    Remember, only four people(Kennedy, Hoover, Eisenhower, Harding) since World War I have gone to the White House not being a Governor or Vice President before hand.

    So when you're looking for possible winners on both sides, look to the state houses nation wide.
    Last edited by jmcclain19; 11-03-2004 at 01:42 PM.


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