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Thread: Luke Hudson

  1. #31
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    Re: Luke Hudson

    Quote Originally Posted by Redmachine2003
    Hudson first couple of year in the minors he pitched lights out.
    Hudson's first couple of years (ages 21 & 22):
    * 1998 Portland (low A): 15 GS, 3-6 record, 4.74 ERA, 1.49 WHIP
    * 1999 Asheville (low A): 20 GS, 6-5 record, 4.30 ERA, 1.28 WHIP

    Hudson didn't put up a sub-3.00 ERA until his SIXTH year of pro ball. If that is your definition of 'lights out', then I can see why you like Hudson.

    Here is MY definition of 'lights out'.

    Maddux's first couple of years (ages 18 & 19):
    * 1984 Pikeville (Rookie): 12 GS, 6-2 record, 2.63 ERA, 1.22 WHIP
    * 1985 Peoria (low A): 27 GS, 13-9 record, 3.19 ERA, 1.23 WHIP

    Look at that, Maddux put up a sub-3.00 ERA in his FIRST year as a pro, fresh out of high school. Maddux must have been getting that big strike zone ever since he was an 18 year old in the Appalachian league.
    Last edited by Steve4192; 11-14-2004 at 12:32 PM.

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  3. #32
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    Re: Luke Hudson

    Quote Originally Posted by Redmachine2003
    Then explain to me why the Braves was the only team getting this call of the plate and not every team in the league?
    Greg Maddux: Ages 23-27

    1988- 249 IP, 3.18 ERA, .634 OPS Against
    1989- 238.1 IP, 2.95 ERA, .652 OPS Against
    1990- 237 IP, 3.46 ERA, .667 OPS Against
    1991- 263 IP, 3.35 ERA, .629 OPS Against
    1992- 268 IP, 2.18 ERA, .548 OPS Againt

    All with the Chicago Cubs (including his 3rd best seasonal ERA and OPS Against).

    Have you stopped to think that the couple extra inches at the plate afforded to pitchers like Maddux and Glavine was due to the fact that their control was so consistently excellent that they earned those extra inches? Throw pitches with movement that hit Catchers mitts as frequently as Maddux' pitches did and you've earned those calls. Skill.

    In any case, Maddux was a gem well before he ever donned a Braves uniform.

    And you might want to take a look at what Maddux was doing to much older competition in the Minors before attempting to position Hudson's performances against much younger competition as any kind of comp. Not at all comparable.

    Skill wins out.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

    "The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch that’s over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.”
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  4. #33
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    Re: Luke Hudson

    Quote Originally Posted by Redmachine2003
    Then explain to me why the Braves was the only team getting this call of the plate and not every team in the league?
    no one was...just Greg Maddux. he esablished that zone with the Cubs from 90-92...Glavine had always had great control. when Maddux and Glavine starting pitching back to back (both well known control pitchers) they together started getting the wide zone (93, Maddux's walk rate falls under 2, and ironically enough, Glavine's climbs to just over 3 where its pretty much stayed for his career). in fact, it wasn't even Maddux/Glavine that started causing the Braves K Zone...it was Maddux/Avery as the two years prior to Maddux's arrival, Avery had a walk rate of not quite 2.2. you see the Braves K Zone really take effect in 1994 when you see Smoltz's walk rate drop from 3.4 (in previous years) to 3.21 to the next few years having a walk rate under 2.5.

    Maddux has the best control of all the group in question. no doubt about it. it's his ability to pitch to the black of the plate and establishing it as a strike that's his key. once it's established, he can push a little further outside, and will keep going further and further outside until the umps stop calling it. and then once he finds that zone, he hammers it. that's why Maddux's BB/9 rate is the most consistant of the group. but it wasn't Maddux that got the Braves K Zone, it's a comlagimation of Maddux, Glavine, Avery and Smoltz (by far the biggest benafactor of the group) abilities. not one man alone.
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  5. #34
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    Re: Luke Hudson

    Quote Originally Posted by Redmachine2003
    Maddux didn't go to college or other wise he would have been 23 or 24 before he made it to the bigs.
    What makes you believe that?

    Maddux dominated PROFESSIONAL hitters as an 18-20 year old with a 36-15 record and a 2.87 ERA in 488 IP. Imagine what he would have done to a bunch of college kids, most of whom would never play in a pro game. Had he gone to college Maddux would have been pitching in the majors within one year of being drafted, just like Mark Prior/Mike Mussina/Roger Clemens.
    Quote Originally Posted by Redmachine2003
    Maddux didn't have surgery and miss a year.
    So you are penalizing Maddux for being freakishly durable? I have always considered durability a GOOD thing.
    Last edited by Steve4192; 11-14-2004 at 12:24 PM.

  6. #35
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    Re: Luke Hudson

    I can't believe all of this bad talk about Luke Hudson, he had a better season last year than Madox.

  7. #36
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    Re: Luke Hudson

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Lawless Fan
    I can't believe all of this bad talk about Luke Hudson, he had a better season last year than Madox.
    on some planet, i'm sure he did...however, this is Earth.
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  8. #37
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    Re: Luke Hudson

    I think Luke's got a better fastball than Madoxx, and he's got a lower ERA from last yer, plus he's yonnger. We should keep him. :dflynn:

  9. #38
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    Re: Luke Hudson

    who said anything about trading Hudson?

    by your logic, Luke Hudson is better than Matt Clement, Kerry Wood, Randy Johnson, AND Roger Clemens.

    and it's Maddux.
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  10. #39
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    Re: Luke Hudson

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Lawless Fan
    I can't believe all of this bad talk about Luke Hudson, he had a better season last year than Madox.
    Yeah, Leyland Maddox didn't do squat last year

    Seriously Tom Lawless, Hudson is going to crash and burn next year. He was called up out of desparation. Some fans have hope for him, because right now hope is all we have.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

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  11. #40
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    Re: Luke Hudson

    in the end, i don't think anyone is saying that Hudson CAN'T be a good pitcher, it's just that it's about a 99% chance that he WON'T be a good pitcher.
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  12. #41
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    Re: Luke Hudson

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenlord
    in the end, i don't think anyone is saying that Hudson CAN'T be a good pitcher, it's just that it's about a 99% chance that he WON'T be a good pitcher.
    Wow, I am glad they play the game instead of just using stats or other peoples judgements.

  13. #42
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    Re: Luke Hudson

    Quote Originally Posted by Redmachine2003
    Wow, I am glad they play the game instead of just using stats or other peoples judgements.
    so am i...that's how you get a Marvin Freeman (1994) and Bob Hamelin (1994). that's part of what makes the game fun.

    so what you're saying is only your judgment is valid? you keep saying the same thing over and over and then when what you said in rebuttle gets called into question, you say the same thing again. offer evidence of your position. baseball isnt a game of that can be entirely used with the absolutes 'yes' and 'no'.
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  14. #43
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    Re: Luke Hudson

    No, I am saying Results are what matter and to pick apart his results to say he won't be any good or improve on those results is not a fair way to judge Mr. Hudson. The results show that Hudson did not pitch badly at all some of his stats need improvement and some of his stats are very good. But to attack his area that needs improvement (Walks and pitch count) and ignore good stats (WHIP, Hits, and Batting avg against) is a wrong way to judge him on such a small sample size and Label him as a bad pitcher. Man what is wrong with this board anymore, People over value Freel, under value Kearns and says all of our pitchers are bums and losers.

  15. #44
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    Re: Luke Hudson

    Quote Originally Posted by Redmachine2003
    No, I am saying Results are what matter and to pick apart his results to say he won't be any good or improve on those results is not a fair way to judge Mr. Hudson. The results show that Hudson did not pitch badly at all some of his stats need improvement and some of his stats are very good. But to attack his area that needs improvement (Walks and pitch count) and ignore good stats (WHIP, Hits, and Batting avg against) is a wrong way to judge him on such a small sample size and Label him as a bad pitcher. Man what is wrong with this board anymore, People over value Freel, under value Kearns and says all of our pitchers are bums and losers.
    Actually, those are the stats i'd use to pick him and every other pitcher alive apart. I like Hudson. I hope he flourishes, but he has yet to pitch an entire season in the majors, and he's 27.

    Tell me how many guys achieved success with that on their resume.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  16. #45
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    Re: Luke Hudson

    Quote Originally Posted by Redmachine2003
    No, I am saying Results are what matter and to pick apart his results to say he won't be any good or improve on those results is not a fair way to judge Mr. Hudson. The results show that Hudson did not pitch badly at all some of his stats need improvement and some of his stats are very good. But to attack his area that needs improvement (Walks and pitch count) and ignore good stats (WHIP, Hits, and Batting avg against) is a wrong way to judge him on such a small sample size and Label him as a bad pitcher. Man what is wrong with this board anymore, People over value Freel, under value Kearns and says all of our pitchers are bums and losers.
    Once again, Hudson's "good" stats don't figure to be something repeatable. For reasons totally beyond his control Hudson's BA against should rise sharply next season. That will lead to more hits and a higher WHIP, feeding right into the very things he doesn't do well. That is the responsible way to look at his small sample size. It fits in with the larger sample size we have for the guy - career minor league ERA of 4.04 and not particularly hard to hit as a rule. That's what you get when you look at his results over the course of his career. You're suggesting people ignore 664 IP of mediocrity because you want to make a mountain out of 48.1 IP. Nonsense.
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