Turn Off Ads?
Page 9 of 18 FirstFirst ... 5678910111213 ... LastLast
Results 121 to 135 of 267

Thread: Reds sign Wilson

  1. #121
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    28,163

    Re: Reds sign Wilson

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou
    Sure it does.

    But the horse that pulls that wagon is the ability to contend enough to make a rush in season if need be, that means stability in the farm system, money to buy guys to get over the hump and depth all around.

    Stuff that the Reds are currently lacking in.

    That's a hard sell to FA's at this point, if a better pitcher who makes more jack than Wilson is to be had it will probably be by a trade.
    Honestly, do you think the average baseball player has any clue as to the relative strength of a team's farm system? Or that the same ballplayer needs to hear anything more than "We're committed to doing everything necessary to making this franchise a winner and it all starts with YOU." to make him think he's going to a franchise that's on the right track?

    I understand there's some that will look deeper and be big-market-powerhousecentric, but the Reds can tick off the names of their better players on offense and that's going to impress more than a few pitchers out there -- Adam Dunn? That guy kills me. Be nice to have him on my side for once.

    The Reds had a certain chunk of PayFlex to start this offseason. My figuring was that, if they kept a laser focus on getting at least one quality pitcher, they had up to $9M to spend on said pitcher if there was no payroll increase. That can buy you someone pretty good regardless of your zip code. That sum might be down to $5M now, meaning that trade may be the only sensible avenue to finding the kind of talent the Reds need.
    Last edited by M2; 11-30-2004 at 07:16 PM.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #122
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    162

    Re: Reds sign Wilson

    Quote Originally Posted by M2
    Honestly, do you think the average baseball player has any clue as to the relative strength of a team's farm system?
    Yes. Or at least his agent does... especially if they're discussing a multi-year deal.

  4. #123
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Posts
    21,065

    Re: Reds sign Wilson

    Quote Originally Posted by Rojo
    I don't buy this. Good players sign with bad teams all the time.
    .
    Yep. Whether you think they are dumb or good signings, the Tigers have signed IRod and a few other FAs recently.

    I do agree that you might have show a Clement or Millwood that you have plans to compete within the next 3 years to get their interest. They might not want to come here with no other changes. But let's say the Reds upgraded 3b (instead of the Kearns experiment), and got another starter and a couple relievers.. It would certainly be easier.

    I do agree with WOY that Allen and the Reds' reputation probably makes some agents not even bother to return DanO's calls. The Reds would have to make some changes in the way they operate.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  5. #124
    breath westofyou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    PDX
    Posts
    42,793

    Re: Reds sign Wilson

    Quote Originally Posted by iammrred
    Yes. Or at least his agent does... especially if they're discussing a multi-year deal.
    What he said.

    I really think that the agents job is to get more than just cash and year, it also involves putting his guy in a position to exceed personal numbers or comfort.

  6. #125
    Member Buckeye33's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Columbus OH
    Posts
    2,410

    Re: Reds sign Wilson

    Rotoworld agrees with most of the posters on here:

    Paul Wilson's two-year contract with the Reds is worth $8.2 million.
    Wilson will make $3.6 million next year and $3.75 million in 2006. There's a team option for 2007, when he could make up to about $5.15 million depending upon escalators, or the Reds can buy out the option for $850,000. We know this is starting to sound like a broken record, but this is just too much money. Wilson posted the best ERA of his career last year, but his ERA+, which is adjusted for league and ballpark, has held steady at 92 each of the last four years. The main reason last year was the best season of his career is because he allowed fewer unearned runs. Wilson has never pitched 200 innings and he's nothing more than a league-average starter when healthy. Better pitchers will come cheaper later on this winter. Nov. 30 - 2:14 pm et
    Matta = Really good

  7. #126
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    28,163

    Re: Reds sign Wilson

    Quote Originally Posted by iammrred
    Yes. Or at least his agent does... especially if they're discussing a multi-year deal.
    Your average player wants to know who he's going to be playing with, not the names of some kids he doesn't know from Job. And an agent's just as likely to steer a player away from a franchise with a strong farm system (because they may look to trade his client in a year or two if he doesn't get a no-trade clause) as he is steer you towards it. This is assuming that agent values farm system anywhere near its overall payroll, which I submit, along with recent record and current personnel, are the only significant measures those agents will be using to gauge who a contender is.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  8. #127
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Right Down Broadway
    Posts
    18,667

    Re: Reds sign Wilson

    I think the primary concern for a FA changing teams is the size of the check and will it clear. All of the other stuff is secondary and they certainly consider it, but most guys like Clement and Perez, in their first run through the game, they are looking primarily at contract. They always give lip service to the other things, because, let's face it, they sure aren't going to pull a Leon after just signing with a new team and say "They offered me the best contract so I took it."

  9. #128
    Member NJReds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    New Jersey, USA
    Posts
    5,432

    Re: Reds sign Wilson

    Quote Originally Posted by Buckeye33
    Rotoworld agrees with most of the posters on here:

    Paul Wilson's two-year contract with the Reds is worth $8.2 million.
    Wilson will make $3.6 million next year and $3.75 million in 2006. There's a team option for 2007, when he could make up to about $5.15 million depending upon escalators, or the Reds can buy out the option for $850,000. We know this is starting to sound like a broken record, but this is just too much money. Wilson posted the best ERA of his career last year, but his ERA+, which is adjusted for league and ballpark, has held steady at 92 each of the last four years. The main reason last year was the best season of his career is because he allowed fewer unearned runs. Wilson has never pitched 200 innings and he's nothing more than a league-average starter when healthy. Better pitchers will come cheaper later on this winter. Nov. 30 - 2:14 pm et
    They must have fainted at first sight of Benson's contract.

  10. #129
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    28,163

    Re: Reds sign Wilson

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou
    What he said.

    I really think that the agents job is to get more than just cash and year, it also involves putting his guy in a position to exceed personal numbers or comfort.
    Cash
    Years
    Comfort in new surroundings
    Everything else

    I think that would be just about the standard checklist. For some players going to a team that did well last year is going to be part of that comfort. For others factors like media market and his own aesthetics (some players might only want to be in Cali for instance) take precedence.

    But strength of system is something you never even hear discussed in all the various ramblings about the free agent market.

    IMO, those are things you and I care about, but we're by no means indicative of the standard thought process in the marketplace.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  11. #130
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    11,243

    Re: Reds sign Wilson

    My figuring was that, if they kept a laser focus on getting at least one quality pitcher, they had up to $9M to spend on said pitcher if there was no payroll increase.
    But there is going to be payroll increase, which means there could still be $9M available for a pitcher (although I think that figure was high by a couple million). And another could come through trade.

  12. #131
    breath westofyou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    PDX
    Posts
    42,793

    Re: Reds sign Wilson

    But strength of system is something you never even hear discussed in all the various ramblings about the free agent market.
    That's a micro look at it, it factors into the "Can they really win it" part of why should I sign with the Cincinnati Reds.

    And currently the answer is No, they don't have the resources.

  13. #132
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    28,163

    Re: Reds sign Wilson

    Quote Originally Posted by Reds1
    I'm just not sure what you guys expect. We saw Cory Lidle and we saw Benson. This contract seems pretty fairly priced.
    Measuring against bad standards will net you bad decisions. Though I think you may have perfectly captured the Reds' mindset on this.

    And what Boss said about waiting for the other shoe to drop. After the last four offseasons, I'm proceeding from the standpoint that I'll believe it when I see it.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  14. #133
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    28,163

    Re: Reds sign Wilson

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou
    That's a micro look at it, it factors into the "Can they really win it" part of why should I sign with the Cincinnati Reds.

    And currently the answer is No, they don't have the resources.
    Then neither do the Blue Jays or Indians, reported to be the two teams leading the Clement chase at the moment.

    The Red Sox, Yankees, Cardinals and Dodgers can't sign everyone.


    Quote Originally Posted by guernsey
    But there is going to be payroll increase, which means there could still be $9M available for a pitcher (although I think that figure was high by a couple million). And another could come through trade.
    You draw a pretty picture, but we've got no concrete proof it's more than that. I hope you're right. Though if the $9M was a tad high, then how do the Reds afford Wilson, a free agent AND a guy acquired through trade? Seems to me either they have a lot more than that $9M or that's a pipe dream.
    Last edited by M2; 11-30-2004 at 05:27 PM.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  15. #134
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    princeton, nj
    Posts
    9,482

    Re: Reds sign Wilson

    I felt better at this time last year. Wilson wasn't the "big signing" then, Claussen seemed close, the market was down and we had a bit of cash (which we subsequently blew on Cory Lidle), and we seemed to have a chance at a closer with Reitsma/Wagner.

    this year, we have a bit of cash but the market is way up, we know more about Claussen, and there's no hope for a closer.

    one hope to compete is to rush the young arms. There's more of 'em, and Ellis is gone. Still, we've been down THAT road before.

    a better idea is probably to trade the kid arms. But I don't think that DanO can do it.
    Last edited by princeton; 11-30-2004 at 05:34 PM.

  16. #135
    breath westofyou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    PDX
    Posts
    42,793

    Re: Reds sign Wilson

    Quote Originally Posted by M2
    Then neither do the Blue Jays or Indians, reported to be the two teams leading the Clement chase at the moment.

    The Red Sox, Yankees, Cardinals and Dodgers can't sign everyone.
    The Indians are a lot closer then the Reds, especially in that dog division.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25