Turn Off Ads?
Page 1 of 9 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 135

Thread: OPS vs. OBP vs. BAS

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    833

    OPS vs. OBP vs. BAS

    OPS vs. OBP vs. BAS

    OPS is an over-simpflification. It attempts to give a catch-all appraisal but in so doing can overstate or understate a player's value to his team.

    OBP and "BAS" are better. The best TEAMS WIN games when each individual performs his role at a high level inning and after inning for 162 games. In most cases, this means top of the order guys need to get on base somehow/some way, middle of the order guys need to drive them in. Bottom of order guys need to do what situation dictates.

    Better to appraise your top of the order type players based on their speed, bat control and JUST OBP. Appraise your "rbi guys" based on their Batting Average and Slugging.

    On a basketball team if you have a 7 footer who can clean the boards it is not going to do any good to have him sit outside and launch threes when you have other players who can do that equally well and benefit from the 7 footer's rebounding. Within the context of this team the 7 footer's long range shooting is a relative non-factor. To give him undue credit/value for that ability overstates his team contribution.


    For my boy Dunn, appraise him based on his batting average and slugging. Then give the list of how he rates amongst other players in the league. This is closer to his true value.


  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #2
    Pagan/Asatru Ravenlord's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Williamsburg, OH and the wilds.
    Posts
    8,993

    Re: OPS vs. OBP vs. BAS

    better yet, use Runs Created and Run Created per Game.
    the store for all your blade, costuming (in any regard), leather (also in any regard), and steel craft needs.www.facebook.com/tdhshop


    yes, this really is how we make our living.

  4. #3
    Member NC Reds's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Cary, NC
    Posts
    1,973

    Re: OPS vs. OBP vs. BAS

    Dunn rules. :RedinDC:

  5. #4
    breath westofyou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    PDX
    Posts
    56,899

    Re: OPS vs. OBP vs. BAS

    This is closer to his true value.
    Truth is the construct of "ones" reality.

    Baseball is a game about not making outs and generating on base skills into runs at the expense of the other teams weakness.

    Adam Dunn doesn't make outs as much as other players on the Reds.

    Therefore he doesn't "suck" he isn't worth "hating" nor is he worth dragging through the mud every day here on Redszone.

    Baseball has a place for the Harmon Clayton Killebrew's in the world, they provided a vaulable service and have since Cap Anson and Ned Williamson wowed them.

    Inside baseball died with the Kaiser, even 60-70's baseball worshipped at the alter of slugging percentage and on base skills.

    The game is always changing, but the Reds went out and got Long John Reilly in 1883 because he was big strong guy with on base skills.

    Just like Adam Dunn is 120 years later.

  6. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    833

    Re: OPS vs. OBP vs. BAS

    Your point? or was that just drama?

    I have a point. It is that Dunn's value to this team is overstated. And if you care about seeing the Reds WIN then (given their shoestring budget), it would be a mistake to pay big $$$ for him.

    And on a larger scale ANY PLAYER on any team of the strikeout, big swing, BB prone, error-prone, bad fundamentals - type would likely be overstated (when OPS appraised) to some degree.

    You go ahead and live in your nostalgia if you choose. I'd like to see another Reds pennant race - the sooner the better ! !


    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou
    Truth is the construct of "ones" reality.

    Baseball is a game about not making outs and generating on base skills into runs at the expense of the other teams weakness.

    Adam Dunn doesn't make outs as much as other players on the Reds.

    Therefore he doesn't "suck" he isn't worth "hating" nor is he worth dragging through the mud every day here on Redszone.

    Baseball has a place for the Harmon Clayton Killebrew's in the world, they provided a vaulable service and have since Cap Anson and Ned Williamson wowed them.

    Inside baseball died with the Kaiser, even 60-70's baseball worshipped at the alter of slugging percentage and on base skills.

    The game is always changing, but the Reds went out and got Long John Reilly in 1883 because he was big strong guy with on base skills.

    Just like Adam Dunn is 120 years later.
    Last edited by BadFundamentals; 12-12-2004 at 11:17 AM.

  7. #6
    Ripsnort wheels's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    Posts
    8,684

    Re: OPS vs. OBP vs. BAS

    And getting rid of Adam Dunn will get the Reds into a pennant race more quickly....How?
    "Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?" ~ Jim Bouton

  8. #7
    breath westofyou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    PDX
    Posts
    56,899

    Re: OPS vs. OBP vs. BAS

    Your point?
    I guess it's that your reality is skewed.

    That and your handle is pretty smallminded.

  9. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    833

    Re: OPS vs. OBP vs. BAS

    Thanks for the help on straightening out my reality. And leave it to you to take this off topic and away from the point/argument being made.


    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou
    I guess it's that your reality is skewed.

    That and your handle is pretty smallminded.

  10. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    833

    Re: OPS vs. OBP vs. BAS

    No, not in and of itself. If the Reds had the budget I'd be in favor of keeping Dunn.

    Even with his problems, Dunn could work for a team when batting 6th or 7th (occasionally 5th). And worst case, he'd be a threat off the bench who could play some LF and 1B.

    Problem is that with the Reds budget (and what he likely stands to make) they can't afford the luxury of carrying a player of his type.


    Quote Originally Posted by wheels
    And getting rid of Adam Dunn will get the Reds into a pennant race more quickly....How?

  11. #10
    Time is the Revelator.
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Chattanooga, TN
    Posts
    7,281

    Re: OPS vs. OBP vs. BAS

    ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenlord
    better yet, use Runs Created and Run Created per Game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenlord
    better yet, use Runs Created and Run Created per Game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenlord
    better yet, use Runs Created and Run Created per Game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenlord
    better yet, use Runs Created and Run Created per Game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenlord
    better yet, use Runs Created and Run Created per Game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenlord
    better yet, use Runs Created and Run Created per Game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenlord
    better yet, use Runs Created and Run Created per Game.

  12. #11
    Ripsnort wheels's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    Posts
    8,684

    Re: OPS vs. OBP vs. BAS

    Can't this guy find someone else to bag on?

    It seems kinda creepy in an obsessed fan kinda way.

    I wonder if he's got some wierd shrine set up in the basement or something. :MandJ:
    "Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?" ~ Jim Bouton

  13. #12
    Ripsnort wheels's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    Posts
    8,684

    Re: OPS vs. OBP vs. BAS

    A threat off the bench?

    You can't be serious.
    "Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?" ~ Jim Bouton

  14. #13
    Member Stewie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    436

    Re: OPS vs. OBP vs. BAS

    Quote Originally Posted by DunnHater
    No, not in and of itself. If the Reds had the budget I'd be in favor of keeping Dunn.

    Even with his problems, Dunn could work for a team when batting 6th or 7th (occasionally 5th). And worst case, he'd be a threat off the bench who could play some LF and 1B.

    Problem is that with the Reds budget (and what he likely stands to make) they can't afford the luxury of carrying a player of his type.
    I don't get it. Do you hate Adam Dunn because of what he does, or the way the Reds are using him? Would you like him more if the Reds batted him 2nd, because of his OBP?

  15. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    1,866

    Re: OPS vs. OBP vs. BAS

    I agree that Dunn has peaked at his ripe age of 24 and will not get any better and that his 46 hrs and 101 RBI's are not needed by the Reds. No one in baseball would throw him a huge long term deal or trade for him. You could find a player like him for a dime a dozen. PLEASE!!! With better protection in the line next year and Chambliss, Dunn could put up Bonds numbers with out the juice. Every team in baseball wouldn't be asking for Dunn in trades if he wasn't any good. With the New Roid issues in baseball you will see Hrs go down and Dunn stay at the top of the league. I really do think Dunn projects to at least a Thome and how much money does Jim make?

  16. #15
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    12,334

    Re: OPS vs. OBP vs. BAS

    Dude, you're in so far over your head you don't even know it. You've yet to address a single argument in any thread that factually contradicts your belief. The only come back you've got is "Dunn's value is overstated" because you said so. You know, the information age has blessed us with the availability of all kinds of new, factual-based research that only enhances your understanding of the game. I suggest you take the time to learn about these advancements before you try to argue against them. Because it's ever so obvious from reading what you've written that you don't have clue #1 on any of it.
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | Gallen5862 | Plus Plus | Powel Crosley | RedlegJake | The Operator