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Thread: OPS vs. OBP vs. BAS

  1. #76
    Member CougarQuest's Avatar
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    Re: OPS vs. OBP vs. BAS

    Mr. or Ms. DunnHater

    Take it easy. Believe it or not this board is full of extremely knowledgable baseball and Cincinnati Reds fans. This apparent need of yours to explain stats isn't necessary, the posters here already know stats. Some posters here have enough computer knowledge to even know how to look up stats they don't already have. Some posters here even know how to read books to look up stats and what they mean. Many posters in here go to every home games and many away games. You don't need to post with a chip on your shoulder. I realize this is the season to be giving, but you need to receive a little also. Relax, enjoy. That way we all might learn something.
    Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.

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  3. #77
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    Re: OPS vs. OBP vs. BAS

    you want to split hairs go ahead....his performance this past year will have a direct impact on what dollars he will get from the Reds in his new contract to be signed THIS year. you frame that in whatever "terminology" you want to.

    Don't hand me your "garbage" and pretentious attitude. I started this thread very simply to express an opinion about OPS vs. OBP vs. "slugging/batting average". If you can't see that on one level mixing OBP and SLG is mixing apples and oranges and can produce a result which can in some cases overstate/understate well then I can't help you. You can lead the horse ......blah blah...............

    Dunn can help a team. But he strikes out too much and is plain and simply not a good enough hitter to bat 3, 4 or 5. And despite his OBP, his lack of bat control/speed make him totally ill suited for a 1,2 spot in order where you might plug in a high OBP. He has had 4 full years to develop into a more complete player but he is still basically the same guy he was in year one. Reds can't afford to pay multi-millions for a one dimensional big swing guy.


    Quote Originally Posted by TRF
    A contract year implies Dunn is playing for a contract offer from multiple teams. He isn't. He's Reds property. period.

    So you don't know the terminolgy.

    It's about getting on base, and not making outs. Add to that Dunn's prolific power and incredible SLG and what you have is A HOF player in the making.

    Don't hand us any garbage about rbi's. guys have to be on for him to jack one, and it certainly isn't his fault he had no credible protection in the lineup with Jr. and AK hurt most of the year.

    You walked into Redszone. This is without a doubt the most intelligent fanzone on the internet. Don't bring the BA, RBI arguement here, it's got no weight. But if it makes you feel better, After Boone left, Dunn's BA jumped 50 points.

  4. #78
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: OPS vs. OBP vs. BAS

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD
    Right. Because great hitters swing at Balls.

    Build your bridge yet?
    Adam Dunn knows how to take a walk. He also strikes out a lot when he takes a couple of hittable strikes and then goes fishin' for a ball out of the zone in those "behind in the count" situations. I heard an interview with Adam Dunn, late in the season, and he stated that he would like to start "cashing in" on more of the fastballs that he gets, early in the count, particularly when there are runners in scoring position.

    I'm not going to try and take anything away from Adam Dunn's season because I thought it was really impressive in a lot of ways, but even he knows and admits that he takes a lot of good pitches that he can and should hit with authority. I want to see him agressive on those pitches. The guy knows a ball from a strike. To blindly defend the fact that he can and should hit a lot of those pitches in favor of trying to draw a walk goes against the grain where I am sitting. Hitting those pitches with authority is not going to change the type of hitter that he is in any negative way. He'll, more than likely, draw more bases on balls because of it.

    I want Adam Dunn on this baseball team. I also want to see him start making pitchers pay for those "fat ones" that they have been getting by him, early in counts, for the last couple of years. When he does this, and I really believe he can, he is going to price himself right out of the Queen City and become a "truly elite" hitter. He, self admittedly, knows what he needs to do. When he does it, he will be a much more complete hitter.

  5. #79
    Ripsnort wheels's Avatar
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    Re: OPS vs. OBP vs. BAS

    Quote Originally Posted by DunnHater
    you want to split hairs go ahead....his performance this past year will have a direct impact on what dollars he will get from the Reds in his new contract to be signed THIS year. you frame that in whatever "terminology" you want to.

    Don't hand me your "garbage" and pretentious attitude. I started this thread very simply to express an opinion about OPS vs. OBP vs. "slugging/batting average". If you can't see that on one level mixing OBP and SLG is mixing apples and oranges and can produce a result which can in some cases overstate/understate well then I can't help you. You can lead the horse ......blah blah...............

    Dunn can help a team. But he strikes out too much and is plain and simply not a good enough hitter to bat 3, 4 or 5. And despite his OBP, his lack of bat control/speed make him totally ill suited for a 1,2 spot in order where you might plug in a high OBP. He has had 4 full years to develop into a more complete player but he is still basically the same guy he was in year one. Reds can't afford to pay multi-millions for a one dimensional big swing guy.
    How am I being pretentious? You said Dunn was in a contract year, and he wasn't. He's still Reds property. Every year for every player and the stats they put up directly impact how much they make.

    It's not about "terminology". I just don't agree with your assertion that Dunn's numbers were somehow inflated because he's in a "contract year".

    You being offended by that would be akin to me being offended because you called me a horse.
    "We know we're better than this, but we can't prove it." - Tony Gwynn

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    Re: OPS vs. OBP vs. BAS

    Didn't refer to you as "pretentious". I was referencing TRF (scroll up).
    (same with horse reference.....)

    This past year was critical for determining what Dunn will make in this upcoming contract. How about that? Agree on that?

    Were he to have put up another .215 avg. and led both leagues in outfielder errors again he would stand to make much less money than he will likely sign for this winter.

    His single-season strikeout record this past year didn't help his case but his 46 HRs and 34 doubles will be some good ammunition for upping that dollar amount.

    Quote Originally Posted by wheels
    How am I being pretentious? You said Dunn was in a contract year, and he wasn't. He's still Reds property. Every year for every player and the stats they put up directly impact how much they make.

    It's not about "terminology". I just don't agree with your assertion that Dunn's numbers were somehow inflated because he's in a "contract year".

    You being offended by that would be akin to me being offended because you called me a horse.

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    Re: OPS vs. OBP vs. BAS

    I think shes got a point about it being just about money for Dunn. Just because she got the terms wrong doesn't mean anything.

  8. #82
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: OPS vs. OBP vs. BAS

    I think Dunn would be a much better hitter if he would just hit the ball more and not take thouse stupid walks eventhough it's actually the pitcher not pitching him the ball so it really isn't his fault but he hits long homeruns with noone on base excetp when Casey who does hit the ball gets on but what I really mean is Go REds! Because the Reds are going to trade Dunn for Mark Prior and Josh Beckett in a three way deal eventhough he isn't any good.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  9. #83
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    Re: OPS vs. OBP vs. BAS

    word

  10. #84
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    Re: OPS vs. OBP vs. BAS

    This thread reminds me of this story.


  11. #85
    MarsArmyGirl RosieRed's Avatar
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    Re: OPS vs. OBP vs. BAS

    Quote Originally Posted by BadFundamentals
    Were he to have put up another .215 avg. and led both leagues in outfielder errors again he would stand to make much less money than he will likely sign for this winter.
    So ... we should hope Reds players perform poorly so that the FO doesn't have to pay them much money?

  12. #86
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: OPS vs. OBP vs. BAS

    OPS is just jealous of batting average because one day they were having coffee and OPS found out that batting average had three lumps of sugar and OPS only had two and to this day it has caused a rift between Bill James and the guy that had the three lumps of sugar but it doesn't matter because I wonce saw Willy McGee run really fast which means that today's players just aren't as good.
    gO REds!
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  13. #87
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    Re: OPS vs. OBP vs. BAS

    Quote Originally Posted by RANDY IN CHAR NC
    Adam Dunn knows how to take a walk. He also strikes out a lot when he takes a couple of hittable strikes and then goes fishin' for a ball out of the zone in those "behind in the count" situations. I heard an interview with Adam Dunn, late in the season, and he stated that he would like to start "cashing in" on more of the fastballs that he gets, early in the count, particularly when there are runners in scoring position.

    I'm not going to try and take anything away from Adam Dunn's season because I thought it was really impressive in a lot of ways, but even he knows and admits that he takes a lot of good pitches that he can and should hit with authority. I want to see him agressive on those pitches. The guy knows a ball from a strike. To blindly defend the fact that he can and should hit a lot of those pitches in favor of trying to draw a walk goes against the grain where I am sitting. Hitting those pitches with authority is not going to change the type of hitter that he is in any negative way. He'll, more than likely, draw more bases on balls because of it.

    I want Adam Dunn on this baseball team. I also want to see him start making pitchers pay for those "fat ones" that they have been getting by him, early in counts, for the last couple of years. When he does this, and I really believe he can, he is going to price himself right out of the Queen City and become a "truly elite" hitter. He, self admittedly, knows what he needs to do. When he does it, he will be a much more complete hitter.

    Randy, I completed a study some time ago that determined that Adam Dunn does not sit and watch fat pitches go by. He's not the passive hitter you seem to think he is. He does not take the number of "fat" strikes you think he does early in counts. It's just that he misses a bunch of pitches he swings at. As he continues to develop, he'll hit a higher percentage of them allowing us all to be happy.

    He's already an "truly elite" hitter just the way he is. At age 24. Scary.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

    "The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch that’s over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.”
    --Ted Williams

  14. #88
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: OPS vs. OBP vs. BAS

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD
    He's already an "truly elite" hitter just the way he is. At age 24. Scary.

    You just think that because you're somekind of scientist with the numbers and the facts and stuff. If you actually watched the game you'd know that Dunn can't manufacture runs because he strikes out too much to be an elite player. You can get your facts to say anything they want to because pie is good.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  15. #89
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: OPS vs. OBP vs. BAS

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD
    Randy, I completed a study some time ago that determined that Adam Dunn does not sit and watch fat pitches go by. He's not the passive hitter you seem to think he is. He does not take the number of "fat" strikes you think he does early in counts. It's just that he misses a bunch of pitches he swings at. As he continues to develop, he'll hit a higher percentage of them allowing us all to be happy.

    He's already an "truly elite" hitter just the way he is. At age 24. Scary.
    I respect your opinion, Steel, (even if you don't think so) and I would be interested in seeing that study in print, but I also watch the majority of the Reds games that are televised. I know that my eyes are not deceiving me when I see Adam Dunn take a lot of very hittable pitches for strikes, early in counts. IF I were the only person to see that, I might feel different, but a lot of folks that I talk to, and respect, have observed the same thing. In my opinion, he gives a lot of at bats away because of it. He is not a good two strike hitter. He goes fishin' for the ball out of the zone a whole lot with two strikes. A lot of hitters do. It's not everyone's forte to hit with two strikes. It's tough. I even heard Adam Dunn allude to the fact that he wants to make pitchers pay by hitting more of those early strikes in an interview.

    As far as Dunn being a truly elite hitter, well I think that is very subjective from person to person. I don't think he is there yet. It'll take putting up elite #'s for a few more seasons for me to say that, and my opinion is only that. I think that the key is, "will Dunn continue to develop as a hitter. It's not easy at this level.

    I think you hit it on the nail when you said, "As he continues to develop, he'll hit a higher percentage of them, allowing us all to be happy." Let's all hope he does just that.

  16. #90
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: OPS vs. OBP vs. BAS

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor
    You just think that because you're somekind of scientist with the numbers and the facts and stuff. If you actually watched the game you'd know that Dunn can't manufacture runs because he strikes out too much to be an elite player. You can get your facts to say anything they want to because pie is good.
    That's nice.


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