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Thread: OPS vs. OBP vs. BAS

  1. #16
    Member ochre's Avatar
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    Re: OPS vs. OBP vs. BAS

    14th in the majors in SLG for players who played in more than 100 games.

    Batting average as an isolated stat is pretty much useless regardless of where a player bats in the order.

    But I guess sometimes a troll is just a troll
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  3. #17
    Dunnilicious creek14's Avatar
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    Re: OPS vs. OBP vs. BAS

    Quote Originally Posted by wheels
    You can't be serious.
    No, he/she isn't. The board is being played like a
    Will trade this space for a #1 starter.

  4. #18
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    Re: OPS vs. OBP vs. BAS

    I'm not a big fan of "Runs Created" perhaps only because I think OBP, batting average, Slugging and the other individual stats tell you all you need to know.

    But....honestly, I haven't looked at that stat that much in detail.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenlord
    better yet, use Runs Created and Run Created per Game.

  5. #19
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    Re: OPS vs. OBP vs. BAS

    And that I'll go along with. Of course, remember last year was his contract year and his best year in the majors. You run Slugging on Adam for his 4 years in majors and his rank falls considerably I'm sure.

    But again, I'll go along with OBP for players at the top of order and Slugging for rbi types.

    And agree, that batting average is more independent of role in offense for a given player. OBP best for guys who need to get on base. And slugging (factoring both batting average and power) is pretty darn good for appraising a player's rbi ability................


    Quote Originally Posted by ochre
    14th in the majors in SLG for players who played in more than 100 games.

    Batting average as an isolated stat is pretty much useless regardless of where a player bats in the order.

  6. #20
    Pagan/Asatru Ravenlord's Avatar
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    Re: OPS vs. OBP vs. BAS

    Runs Created is nothing but individual stats

    [(H+BB+HBP-CS-GIDP)*(TB+.26(SB+SF+SH)+.52(BB-IBB+HBP))]
    divided by Total Plate Appearances.

    or a much simpler form:
    (H+BB)*TB/AB
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  7. #21
    Pagan/Asatru Ravenlord's Avatar
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    Re: OPS vs. OBP vs. BAS

    Quote Originally Posted by DunnHater
    OBP best for guys who need to get on base.
    all players need a high OBP. a team of guys hitting 200, but with 400 OBPs will always outscore a team of guys hitting 300, but with 300 OBPs. that is assuming that their SLG are relatively same. i could figure how far apart they would have be, and do some projecting, but i don't want to do math right now.
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  8. #22
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: OPS vs. OBP vs. BAS

    Quote Originally Posted by DunnHater
    Slugging for rbi types.
    Uh, have you taken a look at Dunn's SLG?
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

  9. #23
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    Re: OPS vs. OBP vs. BAS

    "Dude" apparently you need to learn to read. In every post AFTER my initial one I was responding to a comment made by someone else and addressing it.

    I "suggest" YOU learn to not just "read" but also think about what you read. You may even learn something.

    I made a very clear fact-based argument for why I believe appraising Dunn on his OPS overstates his value to a team - and in this case, particularly the Reds.

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM
    Dude, you're in so far over your head you don't even know it. You've yet to address a single argument in any thread that factually contradicts your belief. The only come back you've got is "Dunn's value is overstated" because you said so. You know, the information age has blessed us with the availability of all kinds of new, factual-based research that only enhances your understanding of the game. I suggest you take the time to learn about these advancements before you try to argue against them. Because it's ever so obvious from reading what you've written that you don't have clue #1 on any of it.

  10. #24
    Member SteelSD's Avatar
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    Re: OPS vs. OBP vs. BAS

    OBP best for guys who need to get on base. And slugging (factoring both batting average and power) is pretty darn good for appraising a player's rbi ability
    All hitters "need to get on base". And Slugging Percentage has absolutly nothing to do with Batting Average. Nothing.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

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  11. #25
    Ripsnort wheels's Avatar
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    Re: OPS vs. OBP vs. BAS

    You give me guys that make fewer outs, and my team will whip yours any day, regardless of what you think their role in the lineup should be.

    Don't make outs, and accquire as many bases as possible.

    It's really pretty simple.
    "We know we're better than this, but we can't prove it." - Tony Gwynn

  12. #26
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: OPS vs. OBP vs. BAS

    My point is that you've offered nothing but opinion, your opinion, wile others have offered cold hard facts.
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

  13. #27
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    Re: OPS vs. OBP vs. BAS

    Thanks. On first glance though, appears to be very similar to OPS in that it attempts to capture BOTH just "getting on base somehow/some way" AND rbi/power ability. I think it is better to look at those two attributes independently where you can factor in what type of player you're talking about.

    But thanks, and again if Reds had a bigger budget then I'd be less against keeping a Dunn-type player and paying him the $$$. But you have to look at every dollar of spending with the Reds.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenlord
    Runs Created is nothing but individual stats

    [(H+BB+HBP-CS-GIDP)*(TB+.26(SB+SF+SH)+.52(BB-IBB+HBP))]
    divided by Total Plate Appearances.

    or a much simpler form:
    (H+BB)*TB/AB

  14. #28
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    Re: OPS vs. OBP vs. BAS

    I've heard the "outs" argument as well and I agree there is something to it.

    But with the Reds you need to look to strike a mix of players that will give you more than their component parts. You can't afford to just take the guys who make the least outs and pay them whatever they can demand.


    Quote Originally Posted by wheels
    You give me guys that make fewer outs, and my team will whip yours any day, regardless of what you think their role in the lineup should be.

    Don't make outs, and accquire as many bases as possible.

    It's really pretty simple.

  15. #29
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    Re: OPS vs. OBP vs. BAS

    I assume as big Reds/baseball fans we are all familiar with the raw numbers which background this argument. Do you really need a link or a table of stats?

    The point of this argument is to keep OBP and Slugging/Batting average separate. Evaluate top of the order type players based on OBP. Evaluate middle of the order type guys based on actual HITTING (batting and slugging). Inferior hitters who typically bat at the bottom......many exceptions there.

    Whoever the player (Dunn or someone else), if you plan to use him in the middle of your order and pay him accordingly don't just rely on OPS.



    Quote Originally Posted by MWM
    My point is that you've offered nothing but opinion, your opinion, wile others have offered cold hard facts.

  16. #30
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: OPS vs. OBP vs. BAS

    Quote Originally Posted by DunnHater
    I assume as big Reds/baseball fans we are all familiar with the raw numbers which background this argument. Do you really need a link or a table of stats?
    Yes I do. Because I've never seen a CREDIBLE source make the claims you're making.
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David


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