Originally Posted by Chip R
Sounds about right to me.
I don't have the lifelong attachment to Marty that many who grew up listening to him do.
I've never quite understood the loyalty he gets from so many, but I accept it as a fact.
But I think Chip nailed it in that post.
We'll go down in history as the first society that wouldn't save itself because it wasn't cost effective ~ Kurt Vonnegut
If Marty is so concerned about not sugar coating things and "telling it like it is", then why is he never critical of the front office? Why has he not criticized John Allen. And if Chip is right, why does Marty feel the need to defend the front office. Is it because Allen signs his check?
He gives them a free pass which is why I don't buy the Honest Abe argument.
Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David
So it's possibly ok for someone to stab others in the back in private countless times and because he doesn't tell the public about it that's ok? I'm not into that kind of thinking, just my view.
In my view you are giving Barry WAY WAY too much credit. You think he didn't air his dirty laundry because he cared about Jack and Ray Knight or anyone else? It's not possible he kept it behind closed doors because he was afraid of being viewed as some kind of cancer or backstabber? Fans and the media don't like when players try and get coaches or gm's fired. I think THAT is why Barry didn't come to the press, it would have been career suicide.
Again, if it all happened behind closed doors, how are you so clear as to what happened?
Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David
I'm not 100% sure of the way it went down because i've only heard from the point of view of McKeon and Knight, but I choose to believe that these two men didn't just make it up out of thin air. If they did i've been duped, and i'm very easily duped I guess.
Decency. It's a simple concept. Barry has it.
And how the hell do you know he stabbed anyone in the back? In fact, define stabbing someone in the back. Because pointing out that Ray Knight was an awful manager counts as stating the obvious in my book, as does noting that Jack McKeon had a certain uninvolved quality in the managing of the club. It's not like those two were skating along without a care in the world until Barry Larkin took them down. Those welcomes were worn out regardless of what Larkin said or did.
Barry worked for a company. He worked hard, always. He excelled at his job. Were there office politics? Sure, wherever humans are employed there are office politics. Barry Larkin always had the courtesy to keep that stuff out of the spotlight. It's the right thing to do. Let me state that again, because this one strikes me as unequivocal -- It's the RIGHT thing to do.
I'm not a system player. I am a system.
It's the only thing to do. You make it out like it's some kind of professional thing because he didn't tell the press. This is reported to happen ALL the time in sports and never once has a player owned up to it, i'm not saying it's true everytime it's reported either. 99% of the time when it leaks the player get's blasted. I'm just saying I don't think it's out of courtesy or respect that it stayed out of the press.
It IS professional to keep INTERNAL problems out of the press. I see absolutely nothing wrong with an employee talking to management about an issue within the organization. If you think people like Barry are supposed to just sit back and never voice concerns about things his peers are concerned about, when he's considered the mouthpiece for the players, then you don't understand leadership and the work place.
If voicing opinions the players share about a couple of managers to the front office, then you have nothing.
Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David
Right's right. I don't go looking for ulterior motives when someone consistently does the right thing. Barry's always been well-spoken and considerate in his public remarks. Though declining the opportunity to bash someone else's character can be defined as courteous, respectful and professional, what it really amounts to is decent and proper.
It's something he doesn't do. Blame his parents for raising him right.
I'm not a system player. I am a system.
Perhaps it's because he legitimately agrees with what John Allen has done and what DanO has done. It may not necessarily be because Allen signs his paycheck but perhaps he believes that is how it should be.
I think Marty sees himself as not just an employee of the Reds but almost as the Reds himself. That sounds kind of funny and I don't know if I expressed myself correctly but when you work for a company as long as he has, you start to see yourself and the company as one and the same. What the company does reflects on you and vice versa. Marty probably feels such a part of the Reds that anything that reflects badly on them, reflects badly on him. Barry Larkin is one of my all time favorite players but I can still see that what he did the last day of the season - not to mention the statements he made during the last month or so - was a calculated move to protest the Reds policy of not talking about contracts - namely his - until after the season. It also was a ploy to try to get the fans to rise up and demand that the Reds re-sign him similar to what happened in 2000. But I think Barry overplayed his hand there. He wasn't the player he was at the end of 2004 that he was in 2000. At the end of the day fans are all about how the player performs on the field. If Barry were hitting .320, on a pace for 20-30 HRs and driving in 80-90 runs while playing 150 games, he might have got the fans to demand that he be re-signed. But even though he made the All Star team in 2004, he was still bothered by injuries and couldn't play every day. When he did he played well enough but certainly not up to his HOF standards. So people say, "It's been fun knowing you, Barry. Good luck elsewhere."
Getting back to Marty: Before John Allen came on board we had Marge. I don't think I need to go into detail about how she embarrassed the Reds franchise. Like her or not, backing how she operated the club or not, she embarrassed the Cincinnati Reds. John Allen comes on board and like him or not, the Reds have been run in a professional way. Since, as I stated before, Marty views himself as almost a part of the Reds he likes that the Reds are no longer fodder for late night comedians and sports columnists. As for JimBo, Marty probably had a pretty good idea over the years about the Machiavellian way he ran things. He would read and hear JimBo's mendacious statements and since he knew the real score, that probably made him mad. Not to mention the fact that JimBo couldn't develop any pitching to save his life probably wasn't exactly something that endeared JimBo to Marty. JimBo is fired and - as is the case in sports - the polar oppposite of JimBo is hired. DanO probably doesn't run the front office like a Czarist palace. He doesn't leak stuff to the media. He's much more buttoned down than JimBo is. And he's more deliberate than JimBo. Since DanO is not JimBo, Marty likes him. I don't think he's necessarily a shill for the company line but he's not going to be doing any boat rocking anytime soon. And it's not like you can't defend DanO's moves either. You may not agree with them but if you gave it some thought you could defend them. Marty is probably thinking that whatever philosophy JimBo was operating under wasn't working so he's going to give DanO a shot.
DanO and Allen also don't steal Marty's spotlight.
I'm not a system player. I am a system.
I have never been a fan of Barry Larkin and when he would pull his crap with the media about contracts and this and that it made me like him even less, personally I am thrilled to see him gone.
As for Marty I like that he doesn't sugar coat things and tells it how it is, however I do feel he goes a little far at times and wants to be bigger than the Reds a lot of times. In my opinion though I would rather put up with his antics than listen to George sugar coat everything as if I were a 5 year old.
You might be right Chip, but Marty is one of the most critical people I've ever heard. He'e critical to just about everyone, but he has his cronies that can do no wrong. That's where I take issue with Marty's constant criticism of people. He doesn't seem to be consistent across the board.
And based on his highly critical nature, how in the hell could he actually AGREE with what John Allen is doing?
Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David
I especially hated when Larkin played for the Reds through his prime on below market contracts. And the way he took younger players under his wing and helped show them the ropes of the game, disgusting.
He should be shot.
I'm not a system player. I am a system.
How come there's NEVER been a teammate (Pokey doesn't count) who has had anything but PRAISE for Barry Larkin? Players who have made brief stops in Cincinnati have spoken about Barry in almost hushed and reverent tones. And how come Barry Larkin is one of the most revered and respected players among the players in MLB?
Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David
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